My MKX has been at the dealer for 15 of the last 30 days

[Rick65inlosangeles]

They are reviewing my file and are supposed to get back to me next week.

 

So far, its been a comedy of errors. 

I had this bizarre problem with the 22-way seat spontaneously changing settings while I was driving.  First dealer kept it eight days before concluding every thing working as  expected. 

 

Second dealer kept the car 7 days, finding a fault in the SYNC 3 which did  (to my surprise) cause the problem.  They swapped out the Sync 3, and no more issues.  But, while doing so, they tore up the felt covering for the storage cubby with the USB port and disabled all USB ports in the car.

 

Second dealer then agreed to make repairs.  Keeps my vehicle another three days, and then calls me Friday announcing he needs new parts and wants to keep the car until Monday.  I went and I got my car and I told them to call me when I got the parts (because I knew they were full of shit about the parts coming in a few days).  

 

Of course, that Monday rolls around no parts.  Finally, the parts arrived yesterday (Thursday).  Dealer calls me, and says he is coming to get my car at 9 AM . 11 AM, nobody in sight yet.  He calls says he'll pick the car up, but can't have it fully repaired until early next week because they got such a late start.  So, I refused.

 

The problem I have with this entire situation is that my MKX, which I am paying nearly $800 a month to lease, keeps getting taken off the road for a week or two at a time because of dealer incompetence.  Then, they give me a stripped MKC or MKZ in the meantime.  I actually had a MKC with vinyl seats for a week.  Both the MKCs they lent me had My Touch insteat of SYNC 3 and they removed the nav SD cards so I couldn't use the nav.   

 

It also irks me that I spent all that money because I wanted a vehicle with all the latest safety gadgets (particular automatic braking) and none of the much less expensive vehicles they keep loaning me

OH, so you must of had the stripped down Silver MKC.  I had that one twice.  But both of the MKC's I had did have leather.  The first one was gold and I liked that one the best as it only had 700 miles on the clock when I got it. Currently my MKX is in for a upper transmission mount replace. So I've got the gold one again.  Nice thing is both of their MKC's are now programed for my garage door opener and paired with my phone.

[walkabout]

To the contrary - my normal dealer who sells Fords and Lincolns screwed up a repair on our Escape, so we used a different dealer for the MKX and so far they've been great.  There are a couple more within earshot that I could try if necessary.  I understand there are bad ones out there and in some cases all of your local dealers may be bad and that totally sucks.   But I don't think it's fair to say that the entire dealer network is bad because it's not.  Every dealer is an independent business.

I'd like you to find a SINGLE Lexus or Infinti dealer who treats their customers like that - keeping vehicles off the road for four or five days at a stretch because of a loose trim piece.  It doesn't happen.  Why? Because Lexus and Infiniti has a series of economic incentives/disincentives built in and they maintain high quality control.

 

Its not about dealers being independent businesses.   Lincoln does nothing to insure a positive customer experiences. As I've said before, I don't consider Lincoln to be an luxury experience. 

 

And, btw, when I've dealt directly with Lincoln USA (Not dealers, but the customer support reps at Lincoln) I've been treated like crap too.

 

Its a joke of a company, IMO, and I'll never buy another Ford/Lincoln vehicle - even though I still think their vehicle line is fairly competitive. 

[walkabout]

Most dealerships could care less. They are in the bussiness to sell cars fist. The repair side of the bussiness is a major thorn in their behinds.

 

To make my point the owner of the dealership I delt with refused to give me a new x off their lot after being told to by compliance control. This all happened in person with two representatives flying out from Michigan to address my situation.

 

Owner could care less because he knows at the end of the day Ford/Lincoln RAV would step in and cost him nothing.

 

Service departs get terrible reviews everywhere for a reason. There's zero repercussions except a crummy yelp review that gets swept under the mat by recycling service writers every 6 months

 

Your time needs to be spent pushing to get things done on a corporate level. They seem to be the only ones who care about protecting this tarnished brand .

I absolutely do not agree with you. I had very positive experiences with Honda, Acura, and BMW dealer repair shops.  All were great.  And, I think the repair shop is actually a big money maker for them.  

 

Lincoln is actually the first negative experience I had. 

[rst08tierney]

I absolutely do not agree with you. I had very positive experiences with Honda, Acura, and BMW dealer repair shops. All were great. And, I think the repair shop is actually a big money maker for them.

 

Lincoln is actually the first negative experience I had.

Should have mentioned I'm in California. Probably ¾ of the problem right there. My experiences and shared experiences from others have been with very large dealers.

 

I could actually see a small town town dealer caring more.

[Cosmos36]

According to NADA, only 26% of dealer's gross profits are derived from new car sales (including financing fees, extended warranties, etc.) compared to 44% from other services (including parts, repairs, etc.).

[akirby]

I'd like you to find a SINGLE Lexus or Infinti dealer who treats their customers like that - keeping vehicles off the road for four or five days at a stretch because of a loose trim piece.  It doesn't happen.  Why? Because Lexus and Infiniti has a series of economic incentives/disincentives built in and they maintain high quality control.

 

Its not about dealers being independent businesses.   Lincoln does nothing to insure a positive customer experiences. As I've said before, I don't consider Lincoln to be an luxury experience. 

 

And, btw, when I've dealt directly with Lincoln USA (Not dealers, but the customer support reps at Lincoln) I've been treated like crap too.

 

Its a joke of a company, IMO, and I'll never buy another Ford/Lincoln vehicle - even though I still think their vehicle line is fairly competitive. 

 

I'm not arguing that Lincoln corporate does a great job at customer service.  There is a lot of room for improvement.

 

However, I know for a fact that state franchise laws protect automobile dealers in almost every state.   If it's true that Lexus offers financial incentives to dealers for better customer service then either they have something written into their franchise agreement that contradicts state law (don't think that's even legal) or the dealers are going along with it voluntarily.  You can't charge different dealers different prices for the same vehicles under most state laws.

 

Ford tried to do this years ago with BlueOval from 2000 to 2007.  They gave high rated dealerships an extra rebate on each vehicle.   Dealers in NC sued them and won.   Any time Ford tries to do anything like that the dealers take them to court and Ford loses.  So you can't always blame them for not trying to do something that is illegal and for which they've been sued and lost.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20070204/SUB/70204021/blue-oval-lawsuit-gets-class-action-status

 

Don't forget some of these Ford/Lincoln franchise agreements are 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years old or older.  Cadillac has similar problems.   Lexus didn't exist before 1989.  Huge advantage there.

[walkabout]

I'm not arguing that Lincoln corporate does a great job at customer service.  There is a lot of room for improvement.

 

However, I know for a fact that state franchise laws protect automobile dealers in almost every state.   If it's true that Lexus offers financial incentives to dealers for better customer service then either they have something written into their franchise agreement that contradicts state law (don't think that's even legal) or the dealers are going along with it voluntarily.  You can't charge different dealers different prices for the same vehicles under most state laws.

 

Ford tried to do this years ago with BlueOval from 2000 to 2007.  They gave high rated dealerships an extra rebate on each vehicle.   Dealers in NC sued them and won.   Any time Ford tries to do anything like that the dealers take them to court and Ford loses.  So you can't always blame them for not trying to do something that is illegal and for which they've been sued and lost.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20070204/SUB/70204021/blue-oval-lawsuit-gets-class-action-status

 

Don't forget some of these Ford/Lincoln franchise agreements are 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years old or older.  Cadillac has similar problems.   Lexus didn't exist before 1989.  Huge advantage there.

 

 

I don't personally care WHY the problem exists.  I'm not going to tolerate a lousy experience and then rationalize by saying "Oh well, the dealer's franchise existed for 30 years!" Not trying to be snarky, just pointing out that my interest is in the end product.  How dealers got to their different ends is not of interest to me.

 

I don't claim to know anything about state franchise laws.  I do know that BMW and Acura are tracking satisfaction with dealer repairs quite closely, and through whatever the mechanism, they do punish bad dealers.  There is a reason every Lexus dealer out there falls all over themselves with service.

 

The sense I get from the dealers out here is that they think that Lincoln providing loaners means that they don't have to repair your vehicle in a timely manner. They give you a MKZ or MKC (and the last one I had was a road boat MKT - or whatever the Lincoln Flex is called) and then assume that it is OK for them to hang onto your MKX as long as they find it convenient.   So,I'm sitting here paying the lease prices on a loaded MKX, and I'm driving a stripped MKC for a week because the dealer screwed up and hasn't ordered the right parts.  With BMW, I'd take my car in, they'd figure out what parts they needed, and then send me home with my vehicle.  

[walkabout]

Should have mentioned I'm in California. Probably ¾ of the problem right there. My experiences and shared experiences from others have been with very large dealers.

 

I could actually see a small town town dealer caring more.

I'm in Los Angeles.  I've had very positive experiences at large Honda, Acura, and BMW dealers. 

[mfam16]

It's apparent that in Cali one should rethink purchasing or leasing a Ford/Lincoln based on rst08tierney & walkabout's experience. I'm in Tennessee and had a very bad experience with a Ford dealer 6 years ago. The only reason I though of Lincoln was that one of my patients worked at a different dealer, Ford Lincoln of Franklin (not the one from 2010) . Had to get a larger vehicle with roomy rear seating for kids. Lincoln fit mostly what I was looking for. Had it not been for a patient of mine I probably would not have even stopped by to evaluate what they had to offer. So far I've been pleased with both sales and service. The level of respect is defiantly there. Even when I stopped by there today everyone greeted me with respect and eagerness.

 

Back in 2012 I had a less than stellar experience from Lexus. Service was rude and very condescending. A friend and I stopped by the Lexus dealer since he was having issues with tpms constantly going off. When dealing with service they went as far as to ask for the "real owner & not the hired help" probably since we were young. At that point we asked for the service manager. We politely explained the situation and that both my friend and I were Dentists. The manager's response was "anyone can claim status, and until we show either dds license or ownership of vehicle thenwe would need to leave" which we did. Both of us filed complaint with Lexus and received apologies from the dealer and service. However, that experience alone will always turn me away from Lexus. So I understand where both rst & walk are coming from.

 

On another note, walkabout I'm sorry to hear about your colleague

[enigma-2]

Most dealerships could care less. They are in the bussiness to sell cars fist. The repair side of the business is a major thorn in their behinds.

Actually new car sales business model consists of selling the car three times.

 

First: you sell the product (the car).

Second: you sell the financing.

Third: you sell service and parts.

All three are integrated and essential to profitability. Contrary to what some may think, service IS important, it's the dealer's product. If you have a legitimate complaint, it only behooves a dealer to find a way to fix your problem. But just like any kind of business, it all depends on how you interact with the dealer.

 

I too have found dealers in larger urban areas can be problematical. Silly problem, but it affected drivability. The dealer my mother used to take her car to would always over-inflate her tires. Had a good argument with the service manager over this (he was the one actually behind it) that inflating a tire to the pressure printed on the sidewall was NOT the proper pressure rating. Finally he told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and they didn't need my (her) business. Walked onto the office and spoke with the Operations Officer. (He's the fella that you sit down with when you sign the papers on your new car.) Problem solved. Mom's next oil change was on the house and they found a new service manager.

 

There just doesn't seem to be any reason that a dealer would need to keep a car this long. I believe that your problem would improve if you were to involve the the owner or one of the other officer's of the company in this problem (A service manager is only an employee, not a corporate officer.)

[akirby]

I don't personally care WHY the problem exists.  I'm not going to tolerate a lousy experience and then rationalize by saying "Oh well, the dealer's franchise existed for 30 years!" Not trying to be snarky, just pointing out that my interest is in the end product.  How dealers got to their different ends is not of interest to me.

 

 

I never said that you should put up with it or excuse it as a customer. I actually said quite the opposite. But to suggest that Lincoln should be doing something that is actually illegal isn't fair.

 

I've actually read some of these state laws and you'd be surprised at just how little control the mfrs. have.

[akirby]

And just to be clear I think Lincoln has problems with things they do control such as vehicle buybacks and quality control.

[walkabout]

You're balanced and informed akirby. We're lucky to have you on this forum.

[akirby]

Thanks.  I try to be objective but I take things very literally so if someone says EVERY MKX does so and so when I know for a fact it's only a subset of them I have to point that out.   And then some people think I'm doing it because I work for Lincoln when all I'm trying to do is get the facts straight.

 

I think forums and social media has turned grey areas into black and white.  If I say Lincoln is right for one thing that doesn't mean I think they're right for everything they do or don't do.    Just like the election. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal because I support gay rights and my liberal friends think I'm conservative because I support lower taxes and smaller government.   In reality most things and people are somewhere in the middle.

[mosh00]

Thanks.  I try to be objective but I take things very literally so if someone says EVERY MKX does so and so when I know for a fact it's only a subset of them I have to point that out.   And then some people think I'm doing it because I work for Lincoln when all I'm trying to do is get the facts straight.

 

I think forums and social media has turned grey areas into black and white.  If I say Lincoln is right for one thing that doesn't mean I think they're right for everything they do or don't do.    Just like the election. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal because I support gay rights and my liberal friends think I'm conservative because I support lower taxes and smaller government.   In reality most things and people are somewhere in the middle.

 

I agree with all the points you are making!  As other's have said, thanks for being objective!

 

I too struggle with many comments that are made on this and other forums.  People use terms like all and many and talk about facts and figures as if they know the true numbers.  Both myself and my wife work in higher education.  My wife is a faculty member at a research institution.  Her life revolves around research and data.  If I have learned anything from her, it's that you need to keep your mouth shut unless you have the research/numbers to back up the claims you are making!  So for most of us that means focusing on discussions about our own vehicles and the dealers we have experience with.  Extrapolating our own experiences to the overall population is just bad practice.

 

As I mentioned before, I love my MKX!!  It's been in the shop for 3 realtivily minor things and my local small town dealer has done an great job dealing with them and getting me back on the road quickly.  With that said, I do still have a few gripes with the MKX, but would have those with any vehicle.  Overall I am happy and would buy an MKX again and do so from the same dealer.

 

Mike

Edited December 7, 2016 by mosh00

[walkabout]

It's apparent that in Cali one should rethink purchasing or leasing a Ford/Lincoln based on rst08tierney & walkabout's experience. I'm in Tennessee and had a very bad experience with a Ford dealer 6 years ago. The only reason I though of Lincoln was that one of my patients worked at a different dealer, Ford Lincoln of Franklin (not the one from 2010) . Had to get a larger vehicle with roomy rear seating for kids. Lincoln fit mostly what I was looking for. Had it not been for a patient of mine I probably would not have even stopped by to evaluate what they had to offer. So far I've been pleased with both sales and service. The level of respect is defiantly there. Even when I stopped by there today everyone greeted me with respect and eagerness.

Back in 2012 I had a less than stellar experience from Lexus. Service was rude and very condescending. A friend and I stopped by the Lexus dealer since he was having issues with tpms constantly going off. When dealing with service they went as far as to ask for the "real owner & not the hired help" probably since we were young. At that point we asked for the service manager. We politely explained the situation and that both my friend and I were Dentists. The manager's response was "anyone can claim status, and until we show either dds license or ownership of vehicle thenwe would need to leave" which we did. Both of us filed complaint with Lexus and received apologies from the dealer and service. However, that experience alone will always turn me away from Lexus. So I understand where both rst & walk are coming from.

On another note, walkabout I'm sorry to hear about your colleague

 

Thanks. That was one of the worst things I've ever experienced. Sweet man, murdered right in his office.

 

Puts things like car ownership into a trivial light.

 

Btw, I have a Ph.D. from Vandy. I still visit Nashville at least once a year.

[akirby]

Btw, I have a Ph.D. from Vandy. I still visit Nashville at least once a year.

 

I may or may not be a UGA alumni and may or may not have been pissed at the end of the Vandy-UGA game this year.........

[rst08tierney]

It's apparent that in Cali one should rethink purchasing or leasing a Ford/Lincoln based on rst08tierney & walkabout's experience. I'm in Tennessee and had a very bad experience with a Ford dealer 6 years ago. The only reason I though of Lincoln was that one of my patients worked at a different dealer, Ford Lincoln of Franklin (not the one from 2010) . Had to get a larger vehicle with roomy rear seating for kids. Lincoln fit mostly what I was looking for. Had it not been for a patient of mine I probably would not have even stopped by to evaluate what they had to offer. So far I've been pleased with both sales and service. The level of respect is defiantly there. Even when I stopped by there today everyone greeted me with respect and eagerness.

 

Back in 2012 I had a less than stellar experience from Lexus. Service was rude and very condescending. A friend and I stopped by the Lexus dealer since he was having issues with tpms constantly going off. When dealing with service they went as far as to ask for the "real owner & not the hired help" probably since we were young. At that point we asked for the service manager. We politely explained the situation and that both my friend and I were Dentists. The manager's response was "anyone can claim status, and until we show either dds license or ownership of vehicle thenwe would need to leave" which we did. Both of us filed complaint with Lexus and received apologies from the dealer and service. However, that experience alone will always turn me away from Lexus. So I understand where both rst & walk are coming from.

 

On another note, walkabout I'm sorry to hear about your colleague

One of my main reasons for pulling the trigger on the X was for the "Lincoln Promise". A commitment to something better then average but they fell dramatically short in every aspect advertised.

 

Build Quality - Fail

 

Dealer Experience - Fail

 

Lincoln Customer Service - Fail

 

American Luxury Brand - Not even close

[akirby]

Oh look - we're having an objective, civil and adult conversation about poor quality without any yelling, insults and personal attacks. 

[enigma-2]

Just like the election. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal because I support gay rights and my liberal friends think I'm conservative because I support lower taxes and smaller government.

Ah ha. We've suspected you of being a closet socialist for some time now.

[walkabout]

akirbgy 

 

One of my main reasons for pulling the trigger on the X was for the "Lincoln Promise". A commitment to something better then average but they fell dramatically short in every aspect advertised.

Build Quality - Fail

Dealer Experience - Fail

Lincoln Customer Service - Fail

American Luxury Brand - Not even close

Although I agree with all of your criticisms, I still say that the vehicle dynamics and quality of features are pretty impressive.

 

The MKX is really pleasant to drive.

 

That counts for a lot for me. 

[akirby]

I think the difference is whether you're talking about the vehicle or the brand.   The MKX is definitely an American luxury vehicle (with a few flaws) but for the majority of buyers their local dealers probably do not meet the definition of luxury brand (yet).

 

Lincoln has a vision and new standards for a dealership experience that rivals Lexus but it's only been implemented fully at a few stores.  It requires a huge investment by the dealership and Lincoln can't force the dealer to do it because of existing franchise agreements.   They don't have the luxury (pardon the pun) of starting over with a brand new brand and new franchise agreements that spell out those requirements from the beginning.  I've often thought that Lincoln should simply start a new brand with a new standard and new franchise agreements and new dealerships but that also carries huge costs and logistics and marketing issues.

 

This is where being able to build and run your own dealership would help immensely.  If Lincoln built a world class dealer in each major city the other dealers would have to follow suit.  But they can't for reasons I've already beat to death.  Or pick a few key dealerships to provide financial assistance to make the upgrades but they can't really do that without providing the same for all of the dealerships and that's just not feasible.

 

Hopefully over time dealerships will improve but if you're stuck with nothing but bad ones you're SOL.

[mfam16]

I think the difference is whether you're talking about the vehicle or the brand. The MKX is definitely an American luxury vehicle (with a few flaws) but for the majority of buyers their local dealers probably do not meet the definition of luxury brand (yet).

 

Lincoln has a vision and new standards for a dealership experience that rivals Lexus but it's only been implemented fully at a few stores. It requires a huge investment by the dealership and Lincoln can't force the dealer to do it because of existing franchise agreements. They don't have the luxury (pardon the pun) of starting over with a brand new brand and new franchise agreements that spell out those requirements from the beginning. I've often thought that Lincoln should simply start a new brand with a new standard and new franchise agreements and new dealerships but that also carries huge costs and logistics and marketing issues.

 

This is where being able to build and run your own dealership would help immensely. If Lincoln built a world class dealer in each major city the other dealers would have to follow suit. But they can't for reasons I've already beat to death. Or pick a few key dealerships to provide financial assistance to make the upgrades but they can't really do that without providing the same for all of the dealerships and that's just not feasible.

 

Hopefully over time dealerships will improve but if you're stuck with nothing but bad ones you're SOL.

Maybe over time that will happen, but I don't expect it anytime soon. Cadillac recently tried the same approach, but efforts were met with resistance.

 

I agree that if this could occur, then more control and focus could help future visions of competing with Germans or Japanese

[walkabout]

Personally, I'm not looking for world class service. I just don't want to be jerked around. Fix the car when it has a problem, don't lie to me, and don't think it is ok to keep my vehicle for days on end because I have a loaner.

 

I want to be treated as well as basic brands, like Honda treated me.

 

Lincoln can't even manage that.

[waltcmusic]

.

Edited July 9, 2018 by waltcmusic