walkabout Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 The sidebadge on the XT5 is pretty subtle and nowhere near as obnoxious as the new Nautilus I saw at the auto show. Hopefully, the production vehicle will not include that feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos36 Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Since most other contemporary Lincoln models have similar badges in place, I would expect the N. to retain same in production form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Cadillac XT5 still hasn't got 2.0L I4 turbo yet. 2019 XT5 remains unchanged. Lincoln gets all the business now. I assume you are speculating about a big reversal in sales volume between the XT5 and its Lincoln competitor(s), the Nautilus and especially Aviator when it arrives in the spring as an early MY2020, which in my biased view would be well deserved. To date the XT5 has been outselling the MKX by 2x-3x. See US sales figures linked below. I don't think the Nautilus has a hope of outselling the XT5 on its own, as much as I think it would be warranted, but the Aviator might well blow it away and maybe eat into the XT5's sales enough to reduce the historical sales gap between the MKX and XT5. http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/lincoln/lincoln-mkx/ http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/cadillac/cadillac-xt5/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) In most American cities, Caddy had a much more well developed dealer network than Lincoln. I also think Caddy teens to be viewed as more upscale. Lincoln is closer to Buick, imo. Edited June 16, 2018 by walkabout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkx-wanders Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 ... Lincoln is closer to Buick, imo. Shudder...Everyone has an opinion Lincoln marketing is just feeble. If Blue Oval spent half as much, as they spend on their Ford brand marketing, Lincoln would be carving in deep on Cadillac. Blue Oval, still, just doesn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltcmusic Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Edited July 9, 2018 by waltcmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Even more interesting, Buick recently introduced "Avenir" high-end, sub-brand trim that mimics like Lincoln "Black Label" a little, except for less cost and fewer complimentary services. Time will tell if Buick "Avenir" can successfully compete with Lincoln "Black Label." https://www.buick.com/avenir https://drivemag.com/news/buick-to-expand-avenir-sub-brand-compete-against-bmw-audi-and-mercedes-benz The base model starts at $39,000 and the Avenir at $55,000. Hmm... sounds familiar. And it's a 3-row. Still, the vehicle's not my cup of tea. But interesting things are happening at Buick. They are considered a luxury brand in China and is one of the top sellers there. And in the latest J.D. Powers survey they came in third of all car makers in reliability, ahead of everyone but two luxury brands, Lexus and Porsche. And yet, GM's actual luxury brand, Cadillac came near the very bottom of the survey, only ahead of the truly awful Chrysler-Fiat brands and Range Rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 Low volume brands tend to score better for some reason. Mercury used to outscore Ford all the time and the vehicles and dealerships were identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltcmusic Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Edited July 9, 2018 by waltcmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos36 Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) GM formally markets the Envision as a SMALL (aka compact) SUV while the current MKX is identified by Lincoln as a MEDIUM SUV. The latter is larger by 6.3 inches & 3.9 inches in length and wheelbase, respectively. Thus, the two vehicles are not comparable when dimensions, availability of V6 engines, weight, etc. are considered. Edited June 16, 2018 by Cosmos36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisguy159 Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 The correct Buick model to Lincoln MKX/Nautilus is Buick Envision, actually, and it will get Avenir trim starting with 2019 or 2020 model year (not released yet). Buick Enclave Avenir for $55,000 you pointed out is a 3-row SUV competing with upcoming Lincoln Aviator Black Label, which will have a higher MSRP than Buick. So, Lincoln Nautilus Black Label vs. Buick Envision Avenir with similar MSRP should look interesting. All Buick Envisions are built in China, however. That is incorrect envision is no where near the mkx. Buick doesn't compete with Lincoln in any way other then avenier Cadillac competes with Lincoln period. I rent cars almost weekly envision is on park with edge though I would say envision I one of the poorer gm products from quality point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Guys - I did not mean to suggest a one to one correspondence in where vehicles are in market segments. My point is that most people do not perceive Lincoln as a "prestige" brand. Basically, most Lincolns are upscale versions of Fords, in the same way that Buicks are either captive Opels or upscale versions of Chevys. I think Caddy does have a bit more brand cache. Note that I'm talking perceptions of the brand not actual quality. Edited June 17, 2018 by walkabout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisguy159 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) Lincoln Acura Infinity some Lexus Cadillac are competitors then there are Germans and Brits that are a level above. Somewhere in between there are the Svedes. Somewhere between Lincoln and buic is Genesis. Buick is to Chevy what Lincoln Cadillac/Lincoln is to Buick. I agree that Cadillac seems to have slightly more cache though less now with navigator. As in Lincoln has 95 %of Cadillac. And Cadillac is a glorified Chevy. Lincoln is glorified Ford. Infinity is Nissan. Lexus is Toyota. Bentley glorified Audi. RR glorified BMW. Audi glirifed VW. Alfa glorified fiat. Massaratti glorified Alfa with bits stolen from chrysler and Ferrari. Lambo glorified Audi. Edited June 17, 2018 by thisguy159 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Massaratti had Chrysler Uconnect for infotainment! The new RDX had am engine derived from the Accord. So, you're point is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos36 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 But, a toast to cruising down Memphis' Beale Street with my Navy flying buddy and our dates on a hot summer's night in my windows-down 1951 Coupe de Ville: Cadillac, that is...king of the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltcmusic Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) Edited July 9, 2018 by waltcmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 The Evision competes with the MKC, not the MKX. Buick doesn't really have a direct competitor to the MKX. Midsized two row SUVs are limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisguy159 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Buick Envision is no where as luxurious as Lincoln Nautilus, correct. But both are considered to be mid-sized premium (or luxury) crossover SUV, and we consider Buick Envision Avenir a poor man's Lincoln MKC or Nautilus Black Label. Let's disregard Buick's cheap nameplate status, for a moment. It's always possible Buick Envision Evenir looks and drives just as luxurious as Cadillac XT5, depending on what Consumer Reports will say. Though Lincoln may not have the cache of other luxury cars it is nevertheless a luxury car. Buick can be called premium or near luxury (a term Acura often gets for some reason) and certinally doesn't have a cheap nameplate status but most do not confuse the two and consider them to be in the same space. This is both from perception and reality point of view. Buick slots between Chevy and Caddy. Lincoln squarly competes with Caddy the two American luxury brands. There is zero confusion there. You can muddy the terms and cars all you want but the perception is that Lincoln is an old man's American luxury brand and Buick is just an old man's brand. Cadillac is better in that it offers some more "enthusiast" cars but still not cool enough to beat the Germans. Go ahead and Google luxury SUVs google will give you several cards with pictures mkx is there Buick isn't. https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&ei=70ImW7PEMsrVjwTgn7D4DA&q=luxury+suvs&oq=luxury+suvs&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3..35i39j0l4.9079.12384..12988...0....78.553.8......0....1.........0i71j0i20i263j0i22i30j0i131.sT%2BJlvJAe4w%3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) The Evision competes with the MKC, not the MKX. Buick doesn't really have a direct competitor to the MKX. Midsized two row SUVs are limited. Ain't it the truth. I'd like to consider the new Aviator, but just don't need that third row. Ditto the Volvo XC90 and Acura MDX. If those latter two were two-rowers I'd still prefer the MKX/Nautilus for its superior engine option, however. And the Caddy XT5 is meh, the Lexus NX is screamingly obnoxious-looking, and the Volvo XC60, well, I don't want to take my eyes off the road and tap the infotainment screen three times just to turn the A/C down from 73 to 72 plus I just don't trust the reliability of that new, complex turbo/supercharged 4-banger. The Audi Q5 is a marvelous machine, but it is what I will be trading in because of its painfully uncomfortable sests. As for the MKC, XC40, etc., well, they are just too small. I have a test on crossover size. Can a cooler fit easily on the back seat floor for road trips? If not, it's off the list. Later this week it looks like I can finally get that Nautilus on order. Edited June 17, 2018 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) What about the new RDX? I can't say I've ever driven one but the dimensions are close to the MKX. I'd bet my left arm the interior materials will be nice too. There isn't an engine or there that compares to the 2.7T. So, you'd be giving up that component. Fyi,try before you buy on the Nautilus as they've apparently made changes in the seat (hopefully correcting the super narrow rear end) Edited June 17, 2018 by walkabout Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) What about the new RDX? I can't say I've ever driven one but the dimensions are close to the MKX. I'd bet my left arm the interior materials will be nice too. There isn't an engine or there that compares to the 2.7T. So, you'd be giving up that component. Fyi,try before you buy on the Nautilus as they've apparently made changes in the seat (hopefully correcting the super narrow rear end) Thanks for the comment and suggestion. The new RDX is indeed something worth considering, if I can hold out that long. My pause is its 4 cylinder has less HP/torque than the MKX/Nautilus 2.7 6 cylinder and the transmission, at least according to C&D, is a little laggy. Plus their new touchpad infotainment system (that would be a withhold judgment until trying thing, as it might be great or might be difficult to get used to). As for the MKX/Nautilus seats, it was my understanding that the narrowness issue wasn't there in the upgraded comfort seat, though I had also heard the rumor that Lincoln planned to address that issue in the 2019 model. But I'll be out test driving this week (plan to look at both the MKX as a Nautilus stand-in and the Volvo XC60, just to have a real-world check on my impressions). If the MKX comfort seat is an issue, I'll certainly do as you suggest and wait a few more months to meet both the Nautilus and RDX in person, so to speak. Edited June 17, 2018 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltcmusic Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) Edited July 9, 2018 by waltcmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltcmusic Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) Edited July 9, 2018 by waltcmusic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Buick = Ford titanium except for the longer warranty. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma-2 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Buick Envision is no where as luxurious as Lincoln Nautilus, correct. But both are considered to be mid-sized premium (or luxury) crossover SUV, and we consider Buick Envision Avenir a poor man's Lincoln MKC or Nautilus Black Label.They do have gorgeous women in their commercials however. Look what Lincoln has ....... :grunt: waltcmusic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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