Consumer Reports

[walkabout]

New reliability data was just released. MKX is near the bottom of the category, rated as one of the least reliable vehicles in the upscale midsize class (Competition from Caddy didn't do much better). Not an issue for those of us who lease but that's some truly dismal performance.

[Cosmos36]

Since I've had zero issues in two years of ownership, I guess that would make me & my MKX exceptional amongst the crowd. It's a great feeling.

[enigma-2]

New reliability data was just released. MKX is near the bottom of the category, rated as one of the least reliable vehicles in the upscale midsize class (Competition from Caddy didn't do much better). Not an issue for those of us who lease but that's some truly dismal performance.

You have to take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt. All to many times they've reported an item to be God's gift only to see it fail dismally in the real world. And, they have a record for favoring foreign cars. (And of course the foreign manufacturers never fail to report their problems, right?)

I bought one of thr first Toyota Celica's in the US. Right off the carrier. Great car, but seats were tight and uncomfortable, ran through points every 2,000 miles and got stuck in snow every winter. Never reported in CR.

[walkabout]

The "record of favoring foreign cars" is (with all due respect and not meaning to be attacking) totally bogus. We're talking about RELIABILITY data here. They survey their readership for problem areas and report the findings. The resulting data correlates with warranty claims and has been well validated over a 30 year period. The bias towards foreign cars also led them to remove most M-B, Infiniti, and even the Acura MDX based on reliability.

 

I don't even know what the remark about foreign companies not reporting problems is about. These are data obtained from owners, most of whom (like me) own or have owned both foreign and domestic cars.

 

Oh, and I should also point out that the "biased" CR gave the MKX a higher road test score than every foreign vehicle in the class besides the Q7. They also have rated other domestic vehicles, like the Dodge Durango, at the top of their respective classes.

 

It is also a mistake to assume that aggregate data translates to individual experience. That's a statistical fallacy . My MKX has been mostly reliable and I had an Acura the that fell apart after 70,000 miles. Cr's data are for reliability trends over the full fleet not an individual owners experience.

 

These data are pretty rock solid and tend to be very influential. Vehicle sales and resale values track very closely with their reports.

 

There are aspects of their analyses I don't agree with. I teach stats at a major University and I have corresponded with their analysts. But, there is no bias whatsoever in their reports. Rock solid work.

 

Don't be insulted by my response, please. I'm taking issue with your argument, not you (I greatly respect your opinion on general).

Edited October 21, 2017 by walkabout

[akirby]

There is bias in their reviews - as there would be with any person from any publication, blog or website. I believe there is unconscious bias with their reliability ratings - they only survey their subscribers. Take every review and rating with a grain of salt.

[walkabout]

If there reviews are so biased, how is it that the domestic MKX outscored the German and Asian competition.

 

Cr's subscriber base is fairly representative of upscale car owners. It tends to be affluent and educated.

[fredluke]

Unfortunately, as I said in previous posts there is a common thread of unreported failures with foreign vehicles. Why...I don't know.

 

Honda fined $79 mil for failing to report vehicle warranty claims.

VW cheating EPA

BMW (Mini) failing to report transmission issues (not repairable parts replace only)

Jag has had numerous issues with electronics and trannys.

 

These are only the ones that got caught.

 

One thing I do know for sure is Ford and Lincoln has taken a hit for reliability for years since the Sync system first hit the market. If you drill down into the actual owner complaints and warranty calls you will see that a fair chunk is due to the lack of understanding relating to the infotainment system.

 

Reports always paragraph a vehicles failure, but rarely break down the actual issues like 3000 complaints poor brakes, 2500 bad transmissions, 1000 engine failures.

[akirby]

If there reviews are so biased, how is it that the domestic MKX outscored the German and Asian competition.

Cr's subscriber base is fairly representative of upscale car owners. It tends to be affluent and educated.

I didn’t say they were biased against Ford or against a specific country, just that they do have biases.

[walkabout]

Unfortunately, as I said in previous posts there is a common thread of unreported failures with foreign vehicles. Why...I don't know.

 

Honda fined $79 mil for failing to report vehicle warranty claims.

VW cheating EPA

BMW (Mini) failing to report transmission issues (not repairable parts replace only)

Jag has had numerous issues with electronics and trannys.

 

These are only the ones that got caught.

 

One thing I do know for sure is Ford and Lincoln has taken a hit for reliability for years since the Sync system first hit the market. If you drill down into the actual owner complaints and warranty calls you will see that a fair chunk is due to the lack of understanding relating to the infotainment system.

 

Reports always paragraph a vehicles failure, but rarely break down the actual issues like 3000 complaints poor brakes, 2500 bad transmissions, 1000 engine failures.

 

First of all, all car manufacturers have been guilty of that crap over the year, including ford.

 

Second, none of that is relevant for how CR collects their data. Cr gets their data from car owners not the companies themselves.

 

Third, some of the most unreliable vehicles in CR's survey are foreign, including mini and jaguar and m-b.

 

Finally, if you look at cr's data, they list specific problem areas. Lincolns are not more prone to infotainment complaints than other brands. From their tables, it's more about issues like fit and finish (which many people on this forum have had).

[Cosmos36]

Specifically addressing Lincoln's early 2016 MKXs, a buyer cast his fate to the winds regarding fit & finish when custom ordering. Many of the MKXs were very poorly assembled. I especially noted misalignments of hoods, hatches, and bits & pieces around the dash and console. For a production VIN watcher like myself, it was obvious that many MKXs simply disappeared forever somewhere between the end of the production line and the shipping staging area. Fortunately, I lucked out with my September-built MKX arriving with only a small issue above the passenger side headlight area. To my knowledge , there have been negligible powertrain issues...the 2.7 Nano engine has been a jewel. Recent inspections of current dealer arrivals have not demonstrated any obvious defects to the eye.

[thisguy159]

Though i don't agree with the CR bias comments, I would agree that MKX is deserving of the poor rating and I do not think its specific to the early 2016.  Even late model 2016 have sulfur issues, various module issues, assembly issues, wind issues etc.

[mfam16]

I very rarely follow CR data. That being said, I'm happy with both our X. Would I purchase Lincoln in the future, maybe. My X had more fit and finish issues vs my wife's X. Mechanically both have been solid so far and I don't expect to have any issues. Yes the fit and finish is an annoying issue, it wasn't a deal breaker. Maybe CR data will help Lincoln in the future

[akirby]

Though i don't agree with the CR bias comments, .

Oh really? Then explain why CR blasted Ford because too many controls had to be done via the touchscreen and touchscreen use is dangerous.

 

Then they turn around and give the Tesla Model S a better than perfect score (103 out of 100) when EVERY SINGLE control is touchscreen.

[enigma-2]

Ah yes, Grasshopper. That's because the Lincoln has only an 8 incher and the Tesla has a 15 incher. (Touchscreen that is).

[akirby]

Ah yes, Grasshopper. That's because the Lincoln has only an 8 incher and the Tesla has a 15 incher. (Touchscreen that is).

 

Even CR never offered that explanation.   And in this case size doesn't matter - you still have to take your eyes off the road to find the touchscreen buttons regardless of size.

[walkabout]

Oh really? Then explain why CR blasted Ford because too many controls had to be done via the touchscreen and touchscreen use is dangerous.

Then they turn around and give the Tesla Model S a better than perfect score (103 out of 100) when EVERY SINGLE control is touchscreen.

Cr has been very critical of that interface strategy for years.

 

The Tesla is on their not recommended list and, as I recall, their online review, was critical of the interface. They've been very critical of other cars, like the Volvo, for that choice.

 

Meanwhile, CR had been enthusiastic about sync 3,recently rating it as one of the best infotainment systems in the market.

 

Calling this bias is unfair. The editors of CR are human and their is going to be times a problem shows up more in one review than others.

[walkabout]

Specifically addressing Lincoln's early 2016 MKXs, a buyer cast his fate to the winds regarding fit & finish when custom ordering. Many of the MKXs were very poorly assembled. I especially noted misalignments of hoods, hatches, and bits & pieces around the dash and console. For a production VIN watcher like myself, it was obvious that many MKXs simply disappeared forever somewhere between the end of the production line and the shipping staging area. Fortunately, I lucked out with my September-built MKX arriving with only a small issue above the passenger side headlight area. To my knowledge , there have been negligible powertrain issues...the 2.7 Nano engine has been a jewel. Recent inspections of current dealer arrivals have not demonstrated any obvious defects to the eye.

Per CR's data, many 2017 onwers are reporting complaints. The issues are not restricted to the 2016.

 

Earlier, I mentioned that I don't necessarily agree with all of their data analysis strategies. I think a super reliable engine is a lot more important than trim issues.

 

But, then again, few cars have engine problems this early in the lifespan.

 

Annecdotely, we've had two Acura vehicles. The quality, in terms of annoying for and finish problems was very disappointing. The Lincoln had been no better or worse than the vaunted Honda product.

[walkabout]

I just looked at their online review of the Tesla (which is now recommended due to improved reliability). They aren't enthusiastic about the controls or for and finish. "Navigating these options is quite distracting while driving. Text in the cluster is too small for Fiftysomething eyesight"

 

Granted, they are not as critical of the old myford interface.

 

The high score is determined by the road test performance.

[akirby]

Calling this bias is unfair. The editors of CR are human and their is going to be times a problem shows up more in one review than others.

 

But that's the point.  Humans will always be biased whether it's intentional or not.   It's human nature.   Everybody is biased to some degree.  It doesn't mean CR is more biased than anyone else.  It just means you have to take all reviews and opinions with a grain of salt - including CR.

 

Cr has been very critical of that interface strategy for years.

 

The Tesla is on their not recommended list and, as I recall, their online review, was critical of the interface. They've been very critical of other cars, like the Volvo, for that choice.

 

The original Tesla model S review (which got a 103 out of 100) up to and including the 2017 update made no mention of the touchscreen being distracting.

 

The 2018 version does mention it, yet still gives the vehicle a perfect 100 score.   How can you give something a perfect 100 when it has such a big safety flaw (based on complaints against other brands)?

 

At best it's inconsistent.

 

There are other cases as well - rating some new Toyotas as reliable even though they had no data - while other models from other brands had to wait.   And they turned out to be wrong on one of those Toyotas so they no longer do that.

[Cosmos36]

"All opinions are slanted...no humans are perpendicular".

[walkabout]

But that's the point.  Humans will always be biased whether it's intentional or not.   It's human nature.   Everybody is biased to some degree.  It doesn't mean CR is more biased than anyone else.  It just means you have to take all reviews and opinions with a grain of salt - including CR.

 

 

The original Tesla model S review (which got a 103 out of 100) up to and including the 2017 update made no mention of the touchscreen being distracting.

 

The 2018 version does mention it, yet still gives the vehicle a perfect 100 score.   How can you give something a perfect 100 when it has such a big safety flaw (based on complaints against other brands)?

 

At best it's inconsistent.

 

There are other cases as well - rating some new Toyotas as reliable even though they had no data - while other models from other brands had to wait.   And they turned out to be wrong on one of those Toyotas so they no longer do that.

One of my complaints about CR has always been that they generate a "score" and then don't tell you how it is calculated.  So, we really know little about how they derived the score for the Tesla or how much things like interface goes into things.

 

I will say, having driven the old Fords with no buttons and those goofy slides and having ridden in the Tesla - the old Fords are not even in the same league as the Tesla in terms of usability.  So, part of the reason they may not have harped on the Tesla so much is that he layout just works a lot better there.

 

And, human error is different from bias.  For years, I've seen owners of cars that CR does not rate high scream that CR is unfair and is biased toward Toyota and Honda.  And, yet I've seen them lambast Toyota and Honda vehicles over the years and then rate other vehicles higher. I certainly don't see a bias against Ford at CR because they constantly note that Ford vehicles (like the Fusion) are very competitive when it comes to on road performance. 

 

The real bias at CR is that they assume all drivers value the same criteria they do.  For example, I've never cared much about ride quality but I weigh handling very highly.  And, I'm less concerned about MPG than I am about visibility (I hate the way you can't see out of modern vehicles). So, I do read their road tests but I rarely pay attention to the numerical score.  That's why I agree with your "grain of salt" comment.  It's one source of data, not the bible.

 

As for the MKX, they love the on road performance, and they say so - in fact, they rated the MKX higher in that regard than any of the car enthusiast mags (Motor Trend, C & D, etc) or online sources (like EDMUNDS). They give Sync 3 high marks, which it should get.  They also note that many owners of the MKX report reliability problems - and they list the specific areas of concern.   They did a fair and balanced job - and unlike other reviewers did not write the MKX off because of Lincoln's stodgy image.   

 

I just don't think the first few waves of vehicles coming out of that Canadian factory are doing well in terms of initial QC. 

 

Road tests may or may not be biased, but data don't lie.  MKX owners are reporting more problems than owners of some of the competing vehicles.  And, that is pure fact, not interpretation. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by walkabout

[akirby]

Don’t disagree at all on the MKX QC issues. I also don’t disagree that the Tesla setup may work better - but that’s not what they said about MFT. They specifically complained about having to find a button on the touchscreen instead of by touch and that it was distracting.

 

The main point is still to take any review with a grain of salt and make your own decisions.

[walkabout]

Don’t disagree at all on the MKX QC issues. I also don’t disagree that the Tesla setup may work better - but that’s not what they said about MFT. They specifically complained about having to find a button on the touchscreen instead of by touch and that it was distracting.

 

The main point is still to take any review with a grain of salt and make your own decisions.

Hard to fault that last sentence. I totally agree. 

[Cosmos36]

Re: the last sentence of post #21. I haven't visited lately, but during the early months of 2016 production and periodically afterward I viewed social media postings of Oakville MKX workers and articles in the local union's newsletters. Very informative of the issues & work environment from the very differing perspectives of workers, supervisors, and union management vis-a-vis corporate overhead. There's no way to address all the complexities of the Oakville situation, perhaps common to many assembly & production entities including expanded hiring, overtime stresses, new product familiairzation, pending union contract negotiations, supply line shortages, shipping carrier backups, etc. In any event, it appeared to me that the 2016 MKX intro might have been plagued a bit with a bundle of issues affecting QC.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Cosmos36

[fredluke]

Yes line 22 is accurate. I don't want to say too much about the initial production of the re designed Edge and MKX. I don't want to implicate anyone at the plant. But Cosmos and Line 22 gives you a tale of a multitude of issues. Remember, my vehicle was built Nov 15 and it was one of 100s that were housed to correct numerous faults. Some assembly and some supply and supplier defects. I drove by a few times during initial builds and couldn't believe the scale and numbers of MKXs filing every sq inch of outside space.

 

They had a number of challenges. They opened the line with a re-designed Edge for NA market, along with a European model with different engine options (diesel) RH drive etc. Without much time to smooth out the kinks with that change they dropped in the totally new MKX. They all run on the same line, same workers, same everything. So that one line is building Edge, MKX, Flex. There were air bag shortages, electric steering defects from the supplier, A-pillar leaks, power control issues draining batteries etc. Train allocations dried up due to rail car shortages. My friend said every day had a new issue. Pressure was extreme due to the sales of the Edge globally and MKX for NA and China. The plant was a bees nest 24 hrs a day. My friend practically sleeps at his post to this day. Never saw his family at Can Thanksgiving (Oct). 

 

I'm not sure where the MKC is built but have to wonder if they went thru similar teething.

 

Any quality complaints with the first batch of vehicles is probably justified. Like my friend said one day he was building years of unchanged Edges, MKX, and Flex and the next day except for the Flex a new breed of vehicles both in design and technology. It's no excuse but it happened.