Fit and finish

[akirby]

If you want to talk about fit and finish then go ahead but personal attacks won't be tolerated. Discuss the car not the people.

[cowboysphan]

Re: Mercedes leather vs MB-Tex.

 

https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/does-your-mercedes-benz-have-leather-seats-surprising-truth

I'm not sure of your intentions about this, it shows what I said about durability - thanks for the info.  Do you think there should not be a charge for leather?  Because honestly whether you add leather or not, when I configured a GLC with leather and all the options it was the same price or LESS than the MKX Reserve (yes you can cheap out either one by engine choice and other options but I find then comparable)

 

I found it informative to compare the experiences of some MKX owners posting on this forum with those of a Mercedes Benz owner documented on the website below.

 

www.lemonlawautofraud.com/lemon-law-Encino-Mercedes-benz-sl65

 

I'm not sure the relevance of this, different model, over 10 years ago but similar in that they try to screw with the consumer and force legal action rather than do the right thing.

If I did a  search I wonder how many "lemon law" articles  I'd find on Lincoln- this is the only one that pops up from 2006 for Mercedes and its only on a lawyers website for promotional purposes.  I read a complete opposite story about someone with a Rover, they did the right thing and didn't try to screw over  the consumer- depends upon the situation and if the manufacturer thinks they can get away with it or not 100%.  Thank god for lemon laws (different in each state)

[cowboysphan]

I guess your definition of 'extreme' differs from mine.  You paint it that we are inundated with owners having serious issues here on the forum.  I don't believe this is the case, given they build thousands of MKXs per month and that this web forum isn't hard to find for those who want to vent.

 

And your comment about the leather proves to me you are generally off-base and just want to bellyache.  The leather in these vehicles is fantastic - right up there with my favourite leather chair at home (which was disturbingly expensive).

 

I will agree that before I purchased my second MKX my eye wandered to the F-Pace and GLC 43 AMG (no 4-bangers for me!), but the Jag had a boring interior and rode like a brick sh*thouse.  Also a fair number of unhappy owners in F-Pace forums.  GLC was a different story - the most popular forum seems to have a relatively happy customer base.  Problem for me was, to option one the way I want it would have meant spending $10,000+ more.  That's creeping up on $80K, and they were much less willing to make a deal.  Factor in expensive maintenance, etc. and I just couldn't justify it for a vehicle smaller than the X.

 

MKX is definitely the value proposition among the luxury crossovers.

 

 

If you want to talk about fit and finish then go ahead but personal attacks won't be tolerated. Discuss the car not the people.

 

Talk to your buddy about this.  We were in an adult discussion about cars when he had to jump in and hurl yet another insult and say I was a "belly-acher"  Right there in black and white....

Edited November 23, 2016 by cowboysphan

[rst08tierney]

A couple guys ranting on a forum do not comprise a statistically meaningful quality survey. To throw another random data point at you, our MKX has been flawless. Love it.

You can't compare a quality survey given to the smallest sample size in the class seriously can you? Especially when the demographic being asked to survey the vehicle doesn't even know how to turn on a computer or what to look for.

 

And your post (first post ever by the way) is another reason members constantly point out the mod bias on this forum. Once the conversation goes anti Lincoln a new mystery poster creates an account to save the day. These one post ponys late to the show is just another perfect example of how Lincoln constantly cuts corners to screw the consumer.

 

In the end.... It doesn't matter. I understand the auto industry. It's about one thing only. Greed.

[walkabout]

Oh brother...its not a complaint its a COMPARISON and an OPINION ...  But you and others cant handle an opinion.  Just like I would say Lincoln leather surpasses Hyundias or even Ford's leather.    MB's interiors are mostly all leather as opposed to all the plastic in Lincolns AND nicer....And most people would agree with my opinion.

 

You just want to try to pick apart every little thing I say because it obviously hits a nerve doesn't it?

 

Now please block me and take your new second MKX back to your dealer to fix all the issues you listed...

This is absolutely not true.  Most GLCs sold in America don't have a stitch of leather in them. 

 

I do think that M-B interiors are in a different league than the Lincoln, as are the BMW and Audi interiors, however.

 

The Lincoln does offer feature that are not available on those vehicles though.

 

And, when it comes to $, I'm certainly that the out-the-door price of a loaded MKX will be way less than the GLC - not to mention the GLE (which is in the size class with the MKX).

Edited November 23, 2016 by walkabout

[walkabout]

A couple guys ranting on a forum do not comprise a statistically meaningful quality survey. To throw another random data point at you, our MKX has been flawless. Love it.

The actual survey data is not very promising.  Look at the last round of data at Consumer Reports.  No Lincolns are on their recommended lists because of reliability issues. 

[Adam]

Yeah, too much of my energy has been wasted on this thread. Not going to respond to cowboy, but not going to block him either. Don't want to miss a letter of his expert, informative commentary.

 

Good insight, rst, I was actually wondering the same thing about you. I do hope you enjoy your Grand Cherokee. I follow a JGC forum because I drove Jeep Cherokees from my first vehicle until 2007 (about 10 years) and there will always be a special place in my heart for them. But some of the quality issues and recalls are very alarming on those vehicles too. Personally, I'd rather have an interior squeak than a craggy transmission or issues with my Diesel engine. Perhaps that's a reason why I've stuck with Ford and Lincoln. All my F/L vehicles have been flawless mechanically.

 

And I hope no one thinks I've merely rolled over on my issues. Believe me, Corporate heard my message loud and clear. There have been meetings held at levels above 'customer service' level. And honestly, the dealer offered to send a loaner and take my vehicle from office or home and fix it to my satisfaction. No complaints with my dealer. New processes have been put in place for PDI on Lincoln vehicles there because of me.

 

Hopefully I've contributed to a more positive experience for other new Lincoln customers. Sure beats ranting and raving on a web forum like some lunatic.

 

I've got many, many new vehicles to purchase yet in my lifetime. It's a great time we live in for all things automotive. So much technology and so many options and choices!

[Adam]

These one post ponys late to the show is just another perfect example of how Lincoln constantly cuts corners to screw the consumer.

Wow. That's just low. How rude.

[cowboysphan]

This is absolutely not true.  Most GLCs sold in America don't have a stitch of leather in them. 

 

I do think that M-B interiors are in a different league than the Lincoln, as are the BMW and Audi interiors, however.

 

The Lincoln does offer feature that are not available on those vehicles though.

 

And, when it comes to $, I'm certainly that the out-the-door price of a loaded MKX will be way less than the GLC - not to mention the GLE (which is in the size class with the MKX).

 

Hey walkabout, my experience with MB is mostly leather, I think you yourself said you've only seen the MB tex so perhaps its different, why would they put leather on the panels/dash if using MB -Tex and vice versa, perhaps they did change the panels to MB-Tex now(for durability, makes sense a little) but its not been my previous experience with MB.  Just because most sold are with MB tex doesn't mean they aren't out there and discriminating buyers choose the leather package/option. 

 

MB comes the closest to the options available for Lincoln (next to the jag and rover) and the prices most definitely compare, have you configured one?  IMO you can only compare the Black Label with MB, the base isn't on the same level but the Black label material are.  I came up with $67 MSRP for the Black Label I would get.  Then compared that to the GLC loaded and came up with $63, maybe you should take another look -only thing skipped was sport package but threw in projector MB symbol, illuminated sills and everything else  the MKX Reserve loaded would have except no massaging seats (which I find weird anyway)  Regular loaded MKX (no black label) $64 -pretty comparable

 

Maybe the out the door price is less because Lincoln has to heavily discount their cars to get them to sell, look at the ads for the MKC right now, they are practically giving them away to get rid of them ($300 lease, first months payment paid, etc)  Websites show close to $7Koff MSRP right now for certain Reserve MKC's, loaded.

 

When you have to discount your cars so heavily it says a lot about the overall quality and your confidence in that quality - MB does not have to do this to sell cars, they have earned their reputation/value and rightfully so.  This is also proven directly with resale and the value MB holds over Lincoln.

Edited November 24, 2016 by cowboysphan

[akirby]

There is no mod bias here. Nobody has tried to hide the problems. But that doesn't mean that every vehicle has problems or that owners are idiots, liars or any other derogatory term just because they don't agree with you. This is the last warning for everyone - keep your comments to the vehicles and stop the personal attacks or there will be suspensions.

[cowboysphan]

Yeah, too much of my energy has been wasted on this thread. Not going to respond to cowboy

Praise Jesus!

[cowboysphan]

rstierney (no attack - I'm praising), you are my hero - and know the real deal for sure.  Good luck with your Jeep.

[walkabout]

First of all, anybody who thinks akirby is guilty of "mod bias" is nut to be taken seriously (at least with regard to his/her opinion on akirby).

 

I don't think the MKX is trying to compete with M-B our BMW. The MKX's natrual enemies are the RX350, XT5, MDX, Infiniti qx60 or whatever their midsize suv is called) and maybe loaded versions of the Acadia, Murano, Edge, and CX-9.

 

I rate the MKX week above those competitors. It's just a vastly superior package.

 

I don't think the fit and finish is on par with many of those vehicles though.

[cowboysphan]

First of all, anybody who thinks akirby is guilty of "mod bias" is nut to be taken seriously (at least with regard to his/her opinion on akirby).

 

I don't think the MKX is trying to compete with M-B our BMW. The MKX's natrual enemies are the RX350, XT5, MDX, Infiniti qx60 or whatever their midsize suv is called) and maybe loaded versions of the Acadia, Murano, Edge, and CX-9.

 

I rate the MKX week above those competitors. It's just a vastly superior package.

 

I don't think the fit and finish is on par with many of those vehicles though.

 

Wow, there most definitely is bias in this forum and its obvious who the biased ones are..on the contrary anyone defending it should not be taken seriously IMO

"With all due respect"  Walk don't know how you can say the MKX isn't competing with MB or BMW,  The have the same class of vehicles and are "luxury" brands, at least Lincoln is trying to pretend to be - MB and BMW are luxury.  If the Lincoln MKX isn't trying to compete its because they know they can't..SO is Lincoln "luxury" or not is the question.. which is it? 

 

Interesting the cars you include as their "natural enemies" as you say - the Edge, CX-9. Murano is not near the price point nor considered luxury brands/vehicles and if this is the case the Lincoln should be $15K less in price then which it is not.

 

Another one of my points, you can't charge a luxury price for non luxury cars then say they don't compete with similar MB and BMW when they are at the same price point.  I don't know much about the BMW SUV's and their options but I know for a fact comparing the GLC to the MKX is apples to apples (per Lincoln's "claim" of luxury)  And when you read about Lincoln and what customers they are trying to attract its MB and BMW owners in there too...

And you don't think the MKX is competing with the Q5?  Its in every comparison article I've read.

[mfam16]

This thread has gotten way off topic. Obviously cowbowsphan & rstierney have their minds made up and should move on.

 

I'm not sure why rstierney has so much animosity towards Lincoln as in the end they gave him what he wanted. Sure I understand rstierney had issues but a very honorable resolution was made. To label Lincoln a "polished turd" is extreme. I'm very certain your JGC will prove to be a head ache. Like I mentioned earlier I test drove their top trim. From poor balance and alignment issues on every Summit or SRT on the lot was sad. I can live with molding issues or other issues as they are all easily fixable with the exception of rstierney situation.

 

Cowbowsphan the Jag my be good initially but just like Jeep they are well know for constant issues. Which is why Tata motors owns them.

 

Guys we are approaching a day we cherish and value because of the many reasons we all have to be thankful. Crying over a broken cup holder or not fully fastened B pillar moulding or the paint not being as straight as an arrow is petty. Both my wife and I are health care providers (Dentist & Physician). There are people out there with much bigger problems that are truly life or death. This doesn't mean that our problems are insignificant, but all points were made and most if not all were resolved. Dwelling on the past will prevent you from growing in the future. Please either be constructive when posting or simply just move on.

[Cosmos36]

This thread has been hijacked...to understand how and why would require more than a modicum of formal education relating to ego and emotional-psychological manipulation. But, a simple method of combating becoming a victim is to cease communication, i.e. stop responding and stroking ego of the manipulator...don't waste your time playing mental games.

[walkabout]

True dat. I apologize to you allfor getting taken in.

 

Returning to the regularly scheduled fit and finish discussion, the panel gaps that I noted in the rear cargo area of my car were large enough that the dealer ordered replacements. Some kind of internal clip was broken on both sides.

[cowboysphan]

This thread has been hijacked...to understand how and why would require more than a modicum of formal education relating to ego and emotional-psychological manipulation. But, a simple method of combating becoming a victim is to cease communication, i.e. stop responding and stroking ego of the manipulator...don't waste your time playing mental games.

 

Is seems every time someone is called out and/or cant rebut an argument it turns into personal comments doesn't it?  You are all happy to jump in and argue until you have no argument anymore.  Comment about hijacking comes from someone posting irrelevant information about MB.  Since the thread got off topic by others having to argue and take the thread off topic lets recap and summarize for those trying to follow.

 

Lincoln claims to be a luxury brand that charges the same price as other luxury cars in their segment which includes MB, BMW, Lexus, Cadillac, LR, Audi, etc.

 

Lincoln is no where near the quality level of the other brands charging the same $$$

 

This is evidenced by the numerous posts and complaints in this forum by actual owners. Pictures included in a lot of posts for review.  Also evidenced by inspection on multiple dealer lots of actual cars (rstierney did you take some photos of the cars on the lots? perhaps you should post some photos if you have them)

 

Here are just a few threads in this forum that highlight and support this summary, all posted by owners themselves:

 

     http://lincolnmkxforum.com/topic/1670-second-first-impressions/

     http://lincolnmkxforum.com/topic/1452-how-poorly-painted-is-your-black-roof/

     http://lincolnmkxforum.com/topic/1463-white-platinum-met-tri-coat-quality-control-issues-frontrear-bumpers/

     http://lincolnmkxforum.com/topic/1631-mkx-reserve-awd-experiences-questions-and-issues/

 

Lincolns quality control and assembly is poor and pervasive, they have been building them more  than a year and one built on the last day of production was terrible if not the worst.  They are not learning nor improving.

 

Ego of an online forum member has ZERO% to do with it but POOR QUALITY has 100% to do with it.

 

The moderator of this forum warned members to stop making personal comments to which t he above quoted comments were made..where is the suspension?

But this forum is not biased right? 

[rst08tierney]

This thread has gotten way off topic. Obviously cowbowsphan & rstierney have their minds made up and should move on.

 

I'm not sure why rstierney has so much animosity towards Lincoln as in the end they gave him what he wanted. Sure I understand rstierney had issues but a very honorable resolution was made. To label Lincoln a "polished turd" is extreme. I'm very certain your JGC will prove to be a head ache. Like I mentioned earlier I test drove their top trim. From poor balance and alignment issues on every Summit or SRT on the lot was sad. I can live with molding issues or other issues as they are all easily fixable with the exception of rstierney situation.

 

Cowbowsphan the Jag my be good initially but just like Jeep they are well know for constant issues. Which is why Tata motors owns them.

 

Guys we are approaching a day we cherish and value because of the many reasons we all have to be thankful. Crying over a broken cup holder or not fully fastened B pillar moulding or the paint not being as straight as an arrow is petty. Both my wife and I are health care providers (Dentist & Physician). There are people out there with much bigger problems that are truly life or death. This doesn't mean that our problems are insignificant, but all points were made and most if not all were resolved. Dwelling on the past will prevent you from growing in the future. Please either be constructive when posting or simply just move on.

Lincoln screwed me coming and going with out even buying me a dinner.

 

They approved my buy back, yes but made the process a bear to recoup my money. They tried to nickel and dime me on every aspect of the offer sheet until I was forced to get an attorney involved.

 

I wasted precious time away from my family building a case that I can never get back.

 

I think it's safe to say 90% of the individuals posting here net well over 6 figures a year and understand to make that type of money it takes time and sacrifice. Free time becomes the most valuable parts of our life. It's that free time being replaced by an avoidable situation I can never get back.

 

I honestly hold everyone at Lincoln who touched my vehicle accountable. All those employees who half assed a days work and especially those hire up who felt my build quality was best effort.

 

Sad part is auto manufacturers won't change. They never will with out the help of congress. If consumers were given the opportunity to return a vehicle between 30-60 days, quality control would change all together. Customer service would compleatly change and auto manufacturers would be forced to stand behind their products.

 

Until you get to go through a buy back you'll never understand the stress, anger and emotion an individual will go through.

 

My case is not isolated. I have proof on 47 x's through out southern California. The only reason more people arnt reporting these lemons online is the age demographic and lack of sales.

 

Secondly lemons are swept under the rug because in order to receive your refund check your forced to sign a gag order.. . . . . Oh The Lovely World We Created

[walkabout]

The build quality through most of the vehicle is actually excellent. We had a Bimmer before this, also an Infiniti,Acura, Multiple M-Bs. In most respects,I think both the MKX and it's near identical sister (the Edge) are on par from the door outward.

 

Ford just needs to sweat the small stuff on the interior more, upgrade the interior plastics, and do a better job of assembly.

 

The MKX is agonizingly close to being a truly fantastic vehicle v as it is, it's a pleasure to drive.

 

I really think the problem is mostly about Lincoln. Sitting in the Edge at the autoshow, it was easily on par with any mainstream vehicle out there.

[enigma-2]

A little of this conversation revolves around whether the Lincoln MKX is a luxury car or not. From what I've read, the term is very ambiguous.

 

Some claim it's related to the historical basis of the manufacturer, some base it on price point, some on what features a car has, versus other cars in the same category.

 

Australia has one definition of automotive luxury. The have a 33% luxury tax added to the purchase of a "luxury" car. For 2016-2017 model year, fuel-efficient vehicles the luxury tax kicks in at $75,526 and for all other cars at $64,132. ($AU). ($55,889 - $47,457 $US.)

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/luxury-car-tax-rate-and-thresholds/

Using that defination, many of the car's mentioned here are not considered "luxury". It all depends on how many options and packages are added. (My 09 MKX would have just made the luxury category based on its actual selling price.)

 

But, there are other definations of luxury. One of the better definitions is what "luxury" features a car has in relation to its peers. If we consider only the base model, the MKX is only about equal to its peers. Loaded with options, it moves in the luxury category. The Ford Edge, even loaded and near the cost of the MKX, is not considered luxury. Not because it's not luxurious, but because its a "Ford". And Ford started as a every-man's car. Lincoln, started as a luxury car.

 

By brand, cars that are handcrafted are always considered luxury; they're expensive. BMW sells luxury models and non-luxury models. So does MB. Even Cadillac has a non-luxury entry model. So the old concept of brand doesn't really hold. Tesla sells very expensive, hand-crafted cars and have been plagued with problems. (But it's still a luxury car.)

 

Personally I feel that the 2016 & 2017 MKX's are luxury cars. Prior years are "near-luxury" to "luxury" based on the options they were loaded with.

 

Fit issues are important for a new owner after spending so much for a car. It's a source of pride and pleasure. But its not a measure of "luxury". It's an annoyance.

 

Luxury, doesn't really has a firm defination. It is usually associated with the purchase of a car that most of the popluation can't afford. Like anything else. My $10,000 Rolex is top of the line luxury when compared to a Seiko. But doesn't keep time any better than its inexpensive cousin.

Edited November 24, 2016 by enigma-2

[cowboysphan]

A little of this conversation revolves around whether the Lincoln MKX is a luxury car or not. From what I've read, the term is very ambiguous.

 

Some claim it's related to the historical basis of the manufacturer, some base it on price point, some on what features a car has, versus other cars in the same category.

 

Australia has one definition of automotive luxury. The have a 33% luxury tax added to the purchase of a "luxury" car. For 2016-2017 model year, fuel-efficient vehicles the luxury tax kicks in at $75,526 and for all other cars at $64,132. ($AU). ($55,889 - $47,457 $US.)

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/luxury-car-tax-rate-and-thresholds/

Using that defination, many of the car's mentioned here are not considered "luxury". It all depends on how many options and packages are added. (My 09 MKX would have just made the luxury category based on its actual selling price.)

 

But, there are other definations of luxury. One of the better definitions is what "luxury" features a car has in relation to its peers. If we consider only the base model, the MKX is only about equal to its peers. Loaded with options, it moves in the luxury category.

 

By brand, cars that are handcrafted are always considered luxury; they're expensive. BMW sells luxury models and non-luxury models. So does MB. Even Cadillac has a non-luxury entry model. So the old concept of brand doesn't really hold. Tesla sells very expensive, hand-crafted cars and have been plagued with problems. (But it's still a luxury car.)

 

Personally I feel that the 2016 & 2017 MKX's are luxury cars. Prior years are "near-luxury" to "luxury" based on the options they were loaded with.

 

Fit issues are important for a new owner after spending so much for a car. It's a source of pride and pleasue. But its not a measure of "luxury". It's an annoyance.

 

Luxury, doesn't really has a firm defination. It is usually associated with the purchase of a car that most of the popluation can't afford. Like anything else. My $10,000 Rolex is top of the line luxury when compared to a Seiko. But doesn't keep time any better than its inexpensive cousin.

 

I just saw the Lincoln commercial and they say right in it "luxury car"  So Lincoln defines themselves as luxury.

[walkabout]

Enigma-2,I do think that interior quality and fit-and, finish are part of what defines an upscale vehicle. In the case of the mkx, I think the vehicle is close to real greatness. It's got the dynamics, cabin electronics and general ergonomics down. The car is an absolute pleasure to drive and own.

 

Just needs some nicer materials inside and better fit and finish. Get rid of that tacky pseudo leather on the dash, upgrade the interior plastics a but, and maybe a little more use of quality materials (like real wood and metal).

[rst08tierney]

A little of this conversation revolves around whether the Lincoln MKX is a luxury car or not. From what I've read, the term is very ambiguous.

 

Some claim it's related to the historical basis of the manufacturer, some base it on price point, some on what features a car has, versus other cars in the same category.

 

Australia has one definition of automotive luxury. The have a 33% luxury tax added to the purchase of a "luxury" car. For 2016-2017 model year, fuel-efficient vehicles the luxury tax kicks in at $75,526 and for all other cars at $64,132. ($AU). ($55,889 - $47,457 $US.)

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/luxury-car-tax-rate-and-thresholds/

Using that defination, many of the car's mentioned here are not considered "luxury". It all depends on how many options and packages are added. (My 09 MKX would have just made the luxury category based on its actual selling price.)

 

But, there are other definations of luxury. One of the better definitions is what "luxury" features a car has in relation to its peers. If we consider only the base model, the MKX is only about equal to its peers. Loaded with options, it moves in the luxury category. The Ford Edge, even loaded and near the cost of the MKX, is not considered luxury. Not because it's not luxurious, but because its a "Ford". And Ford started as a every-man's car. Lincoln, started as a luxury car.

 

By brand, cars that are handcrafted are always considered luxury; they're expensive. BMW sells luxury models and non-luxury models. So does MB. Even Cadillac has a non-luxury entry model. So the old concept of brand doesn't really hold. Tesla sells very expensive, hand-crafted cars and have been plagued with problems. (But it's still a luxury car.)

 

Personally I feel that the 2016 & 2017 MKX's are luxury cars. Prior years are "near-luxury" to "luxury" based on the options they were loaded with.

 

Fit issues are important for a new owner after spending so much for a car. It's a source of pride and pleasure. But its not a measure of "luxury". It's an annoyance.

 

Luxury, doesn't really has a firm defination. It is usually associated with the purchase of a car that most of the popluation can't afford. Like anything else. My $10,000 Rolex is top of the line luxury when compared to a Seiko. But doesn't keep time any better than its inexpensive cousin.

Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche. All considered major luxury brands in the cross over segment pride their builds on quality and craftsmanship. Most importantly it shows.

 

If you read the propaganda Lincoln trys to unload on perspective buyers you would think they were trying to achieve what the other brands have. It's far from the case.

 

Lincoln should never be mentioned on the same level as those brands.... Period

[walkabout]

I don't know why we would make those comparisons to start. My MKX is loaded to the hill with every available feature. I paid a bit more than s50,000 For it. The mid size BMW X5 spec'ed at the same never was about $70,000. Porsche about ten grand more than that.

 

The market comparisons, imo, are the xt5, RX350, and MDX (our maybe the RDX).

 

I doubted many bmw owners cross shop Lincoln and Caddy.