Sync 3 Problems in 2016 M.K.X. Potential purchasers beware!

[mmoretti]

mmoretti...in a totally pragmatic & neutral mode after reading your post, the first thing I wondered as I (in my imagination) inspected your vehicle, what is the base cause of the issue? I would like your take on the matter. Are you suggesting that the vehicle suffers from design flaws that your neighbor's vehicles didn't have, e.g. lack of mud flaps, location of cladding, faulty cladding material, faulty paint on wheels (vis-a-vis chrome plated wheels), etc.? Does the vehicle's shape, materials, or other structure need revision? I could go on in my imagination, but it appears that your vehicle somehow acquired damage that others didn't when driven under identical conditions. The base question then is WHY and what could have been done when the vehicle was still on the drawing boards to mitigate potential threats/damage?

 

I understand that there are issues with the dealer & Lincoln's response, but as an owner or one contemplating becoming one, what is the basic problem here that is amenable to correction on future model design?

OMG. That is the 100 million dollar question!!! I don't think they have any idea and that's exactly why I am in the predicament I am. I've had about 12 loaner cars that didn't do the same thing. On the mkc however, I've had a few loaners that did get "some" small bits of sand and tiny pebbles on the bottom plastic lip, but nothing like mine (quantity and size). As far as the damage, it occurs slowly, cumulatively. It's nothing something like I went out an a particulatly bad day and it got damaged. It's little by little it seems very drive. So I haven't had a loaner longer than 10 days and I did not notice damage. The wheels are where it will show more immediately, you can see they get "hit"

 

Again , my story is SO long and detailed and this is an MKX forum. I try not to post anything about it at all because it naturally brings up discussion/questions from others that brings the story out in piece meal...plus going through it literally upsets me (emotional female I guess LOL) so I try not to relive it :-).

 

I'm off for the day, nice weather. I'm sorry to bring up so many questions and run. Again since it's an MKX forum I don't want to over take it :-). I can answer some more in messages if you have a few more questions but I really try to not think about it as much as I can :-) I'm "journaling" the facts/story slowly right now so don't get too worked up at once LOL. It has not been a fun 15 months of ownership sadly. Vtk story and post really hit home with me so I wanted to speak up and support what he was saying.

[Cosmos36]

OK, I understand. Enjoy your day and savor the moment.

[enigma-2]

With everything that's been done so far, I would begin thinking about power spikes on the CAN line. Difficult to pin down, perhaps a regulator, could be anything connected to the bus causing hash.

 

But these types of faults are many times the result in having a "dirty" (meaning bad voltage regulation, power spikes) on the bus going into the control processor (apim).

[vttk17a1]

Dear Enigma-2,

 

Thanks for the idea.  Makes sense to me.  Anything is possible with the new unit apparently.  

 

I got the car back on Friday.  The unit faulted again on Monday.  

 

They had the car for 21/2 weeks and couldn't get a fault.  Drove it hundreds of miles.  Lincoln tech support was no help.  

I have it 3 days and it happens .  Only about the 25th time or so that the unit has faulted...

 

Videotaped the event as it happened in the car, took the car to the dealer with the fault still in progress (again).  Videotaped the dealer service writer looking at the fault.  Third time they have seen it in action.  

 

Made the Service writer record on the work order that the mechanic has verified the fault, gotten codes and other information, and that it was the third time they had seen it in the shop while faulting.  That goes to Dearborn with the work order nightly upload.  

 

Hopefully, now the warranty people in Florida can't make believe it is an imaginary problem that just might go away if they ignore it long enough.

 

One tech thinks a bad antenna?  One thinks "bluetooth problem?  Who knows???  GPS shows car traveling at 265 MPH while sitting still in the garage.  

 

But even after 31/2 months of a recurring problem, since Lincoln doesn't know WHY it happens they don't see any need to try and fix it.

 

My kind of customer service and warranty support. Not.

Edited April 19, 2016 by vttk17a1

[vttk17a1]

More fun with SYNC:

 

Unit reset Monday and today after the accessory power timed out.  Tried it again today checking the "phone" theory.  Used Pandora and MP3 files on phone, as well as MP#s on USB stick.  Pandora and Phone both faulted.  USB did not.  Videoed each failure.  

[mmoretti]

More fun with SYNC:

 

Unit reset Monday and today after the accessory power timed out.  Tried it again today checking the "phone" theory.  Used Pandora and MP3 files on phone, as well as MP#s on USB stick.  Pandora and Phone both faulted.  USB did not.  Videoed each failure.  

Have they had you or anyone work with IVT (in vehicle technology team)? Have you tested using both Bluetooth (connection for your phone)and using a USB cable to connect your phone?

Sorry for your continued frustrations.

[d4dewu]

Had my BL MKX since March 9.  2 times since I had it when turning the car on, the speakers have gone in to a full volume mode and "bizarre" sounds sequence from different speakers at a time.  The only way to stop it was to turn the car off.  Took it in to the dealer and no error code but the tech asked to keep it another day so they could research it better.  Cutting to the end, the tech did find a write up that sounded extremely similar.  They applied the DSP module patch referenced and time will ultimately tell if it is the long term fix.

 

I read the posts and agree that in my past experience I too am not always impressed with the how intermittent problems are not looked at well ("we have to see it happening or we cannot fix it").  In this case, I am extremely impressed with my Lincoln dealer's handling a problem they did not see but took the time and effort to research and fix.

[vttk17a1]

Dear d4dewu, 

 

I too do not fault the dealer.  I fault Lincoln for expecting its customers to suffer through weeks and months of a malfunctioning product because they "need" to figure out what is really wrong on MY dime rather than their own.  

 

That is not fair to me.  I paid for a car that works, not for a car that might work properly some time in the future if they can finally figure out what is wrong.  

 

I have now brought the car to the dealership 3 times with the malfunction actually happening.  The dealer has worked on the problem on 6 different occasions for a total of 41 days.  The navigation unit still faults out.  How much is enough?

 

Lincoln still plays the same "game".  When I talked to them on the phone yesterday, the concierge said to keep bringing the car to the dealer whenever it happens (as the problem is happening) so that maybe they can get a better idea what is wrong.  I guess maybe the 4th time will do the trick?  

 

I call this the "infinite loop" because they never figure out how to fix it. (How about just replace it?) This has been going on since January 18th.  It is now the 21st of April. 

 

They reset the system and say "come back when it happens again".  

 

Real "World Class" warranty.  Not.  There is no one to appeal to for help.  Try some time.

Edited April 22, 2016 by vttk17a1

[akirby]

You really should try a different dealer.   What the dealer tells Lincoln has a lot to do with it.  I'm not trying to shift blame here, just help you get the problem fixed.

[vttk17a1]

Dear Akirby,

 

I have considered your suggestion, but not gone to it so far for the following reasons:

 

1) My present dealer sold me the car.  I have done business with them for many years and trust them.  They have put forth much time and effort (at their own expense) to try to solve the problem.  Their shop is considered one of the best in the area.  They take the car in whenever the fault happens on the spot, (even when it is disruptive to their schedule).

 

2) My observation and experience is that Lincoln has been "unhelpful" in their support of the dealer's efforts.  Lincoln always has the same response:  Reset and bring it back if it happens again.  Trouble codes, pictures,videos and data (from both the techs and myself) seem to make no difference in Lincoln's response.  

 

Outside of some call in phone support, Lincoln has provided little information (even when they have some) that might help solve the issue.  When information comes to light later, Lincoln support acts like it is a surprise to them, when they have known about the information for weeks or even months. (ex. the T.S.B. on Revel radios/software patches and recurrent control problems with the D.S.P. software upgrade fix.  Lincoln was well aware of these problems, but said nothing.  

 

 Why is Lincoln so reluctant to share information? It is always a game of 20 Questions. Where are Lincoln's field engineers or the I.V.T.?

 

3) Lincoln pays dealers NOTHING for expenses related to diagnosis.  The dealer fronts everything.  Lincoln only pays for warranty (at a reduced rate) when they choose to.  What motivation would another dealer have to even try?

 

That is not to say that a new set of eyes looking at a problem is a bad idea.  But it could also be another opportunity for Lincoln to continue to delay, deny and obfuscate, with a whole new paper trail hiding the old one.  I'm not ready to go there.

 

Lincoln needs a supervisory tier over their Concierges.  The motivation of their present system is to clear names off their computer screens, not to help customers with vehicle defects.  

 

I can find no one.  No phone numbers.  No addresses.  Everything just goes right back to the same person in Central Florida.  There is no contact available in Dearborn.  No one I can find that monitors what they do.  

 

I see that as the problem.  Not the dealer.

Edited April 23, 2016 by vttk17a1

[akirby]

 I see that as the problem.  Not the dealer.

 

If the dealer is unable to at least tell Lincoln what they think the problem is, then of course Lincoln will be reluctant to just pay to throw parts at it blindly.

 

Another dealer may have either seen this problem before or at least be able to pinpoint a likely cause, in which case Lincoln would probably authorize the repair attempt.

 

Lincoln doesn't have repair techs - it's actually illegal.  So they depend on the dealer techs.   Now the dealer should be able to get engineering assistance from Lincoln to help them figure out the problem - not sure why that isn't happening.

 

But I've seen owners with the exact same problem have completely different experiences.  One gets roadblocked and the other is taken care of immediately and the only difference is the dealer.

 

If it was me I'd call around and explain the situation.  If a dealership has a savvy electronics tech they may be able to help.  Why would they?  Because if they fix your problem you'd be more likely to give them future business.

 

I've been doing IT troubleshooting for 30 years and I've been in Lincoln's position more than once, so I'm a little more sympathetic.   But I agree that Lincoln should be more proactive here.

 

Something else you can try is to contact @FordService on twitter or facebook.   Sometimes they can engage corporate resources on your behalf.

[mmoretti]

If the dealer is unable to at least tell Lincoln what they think the problem is, then of course Lincoln will be reluctant to just pay to throw parts at it blindly.

 

Another dealer may have either seen this problem before or at least be able to pinpoint a likely cause, in which case Lincoln would probably authorize the repair attempt.

 

Lincoln doesn't have repair techs - it's actually illegal.  So they depend on the dealer techs.   Now the dealer should be able to get engineering assistance from Lincoln to help them figure out the problem - not sure why that isn't happening.

 

But I've seen owners with the exact same problem have completely different experiences.  One gets roadblocked and the other is taken care of immediately and the only difference is the dealer.

 

If it was me I'd call around and explain the situation.  If a dealership has a savvy electronics tech they may be able to help.  Why would they?  Because if they fix your problem you'd be more likely to give them future business.

 

I've been doing IT troubleshooting for 30 years and I've been in Lincoln's position more than once, so I'm a little more sympathetic.   But I agree that Lincoln should be more proactive here.

 

Something else you can try is to contact @FordService on twitter or facebook.   Sometimes they can engage corporate resources on your behalf.

Have to agree and disagree on some of this based on my situation. Warning sorry for long post.

 

Lincoln uses the dealers to hide behind when they can't fix a problem. And in my case the dealer I dealt with flat out lied on multiple occasions and that caused me to get stonewalled from Lincoln. And vtk echoes my exact sentiment in the mkc forum, Lincoln is re-engineering the car on my dime!

 

I too purposely chose the dealer as they were standalone Lincoln and a big dealer. I am meticulous about my car and thought a Lincoln only dealer with techs that work on lincolns all day woukd be best. I am a first time Lincoln buyer and had no direct experience with the dealership. I won't get into the specifics of my vehicle but to summarize a few things first I have a defect with my car that the dealer and Lincoln have been trying to deny. Instead of a "oh Mrs so-and-so, sorry you are having troubles. Can we take a look and figure it out?" But NO. Everyone ran and hid and didn't return my phone calls and suddenly ignored me. And then the process began by the dealer to literally lie and discredit me all the while they looked me in the eye and told me they were doing everything they could to help me. The dealer set up my concierge case with Lincoln (I didn't even know how to contact them) and I could tell from the first minute of the phone call that the dealer had given "their" story and I was completely stonewalled and disregarded. I wasn't even permitted to present my case, I was told repeatedly "we have all the information we need from the dealer". Again I will be posting the specifics to my story eventually but it's too lengthy to comment now.

 

I have owned my car 16 months and it has been in for 17 service visits. Last summer the mkc modems started failing (on old 2g network). I was one of first to have the problem and I spent my entire summer fall and winter testing and working with Lincoln all the while they kept blaming my phone the app the software I too have a very long career in technology and knew in the first weeks of testing that it was something on the car had nothing to do with the software the phone The dealer while attempting to resolve the problem literally lied and said I sent remote commands while they we're working on the car and that I'm purposely sabotaging and they're going to void my warranty.

I've never dealt with lower people in my life, isn't it the used car dealers with the scum reputation? They also said I was fabricating the problem (they didn't see it even though I sent them videos and demonstrated for them directly). This is just a few examples of the dealer issues. Later in a modem recall was issued..so it wasn't me after all. No apology.

 

So like others say, go to another dealer. Vtk you are right. Who the hell wants to take on my mess? I'll tell you. No other dealer. I kept going to the low life dealer because I felt the same way. I bought the car from them, no one wanted to deal with it and I wanted them to fix it. From the beginning they try to make me go away with my problems all they wanted to do was make the profit from the sale and the second I had a problem they started blowing me off until Lincoln made them fix the car. Plus they kept telling me to my face how they were helping me so it went back-and-forth for a while and all I kept trying to do was get my car fixed thinking it would be the last time I woukd have to deal with them. They literally lied to Lincoln in order to refuse to fix my car and they are the ones that broke it. Literally. My modem was fixed until they touched my car. Now I'm cast out to find someone to fix my car.

 

So on to another dealer which requires an out-of-state trip I get there start describing the problems and that the other dealership had done something and the first word out of the guys mouth was well they should fix it with an attitude Then he plops my huge oasis report on the counter with a big sigh and makes a comment about all my work. Wow, how welcome did I feel? They had no clue how to fix it then ready for this, stopped returning my email requests to bring the car back to get it fixed (as per Lincoln). so now I have to drive to yet a third state to another dealer and they don't sound too enthused either.

 

Right now I have 9 months without use of the remote access/app I paid 7K for in the reserve option. They keep bouncing me to dealers that don't even want me and make me repeat same steps. They know it's the modem but won't replace it. I too have a greater patience when figuring out tricky technology, I've been there many times. But as a consultant if I hit a 3 month mark no fix I gotta do something else drastic ASAP. Not string the customer along for the better part of a year..I wouldn't have that client very long.

 

Like vtk says concierge or Customer (not) Care as I call them just pretty much laughs at you. They loop you to the same people. There's no one to talk to. You are screwed and they don't care. They won't answer questions, just repeat the same sentence back to you, all made to frustrate you. One of the representatives kept cutting me off and speaking over me. It was unbelievable. They sound like they are 20 year old kids

 

Seriously, this is a luxury car brand? Guys I'm only hitting the tip if the iceberg with my story and treatment. Is this my "Lincoln experience". I've seriously been convinced I must be on a reality tv show, really where are all the cameras LOL? It's actually sad. Really loved the car(s)

 

Hint to Lincoln, if you want to rebuild and bring customers over from real luxury brands you should start with not blaming your customers for the cars problems and take responsibility rather than call your customers liars. Do you think Audi, MB, BMW, tells their customers they are lying when they have an issue with their car? It's neither mine nor Vtk's fault for our troubles. We walked in in good faith to buy a vehicle we loved and expected Lincoln to live up to their promise simply. And we live up to our promise by making our payments every month. It's unfortunate for Lincoln the cars have issues they need to spend money on to fix/redesign but that responsibility should not be smashed back onto the customers supporting your company and buying your cars. I've never been treated so horribly, my parents Hyundai dealer treats them with more respect. Beyond disappointed.

[enigma-2]

Difficult to troubleshoot. Intermittent and can't reproduce at will.

 

Lincoln's position is understandable. They will not send a tech as he needs to see car faulting when he's there. Can't expect him to show up and just wait.

 

I had a ford years ago that started "loaping" at idle. Took it on and the local dealer threw everything at it. New computer, plugs, etc. Finally tore the engine down in one of the work bays. Still couldn't find anything wrong. Called in the tech and it took him 4 hours. Turned out it was the camshaft was sheading steel. Said that in his examination, it had not been hardened properly and was wearing to the point where the lobes had changed shape, causing the timing to be thrown off. Two weeks and the dealer paid for a loaner as well. (If was over $5k but I had an extended warranty.)

 

Electronic types of problems are even more difficult to pin down. I was in the Airwing of the Marines. Avionics. We troubleshot the problem down to the black box to change, or the wiring or connector. Had a CH46 helicopter that refused to "come up" that is, it would not come on line after start up, electrically. We checked everything. Used all the pieces of test equipment that Boeing had developed. Still nothing. Was down around 60 days, no one could figure it out. And this was in Vietnam where all birds are required to be the up status all the time. Someone nick-named her the official "hanger queen".

 

So we called in the Boeing rep. Took him three hours, after all he had all of our troubleshooting records to help eliminate several areas of possibilities. He found that a small amount of corrosion had shorted between three connectors in one of the cannon plugs. It caused all kinds if false signals to be sent through the system. These types of problems can be very difficult to find, especially when the system works properly most of the tine. But it can be found.

 

If it were me, I would ask your dealer to try something new. I would ask him to switch the SD card with one from another car on the lot. Isolate out if that could be the problem. Is there any possibility that the card is loose in its mounting?

 

Next i would suspect the antenna as having an Intermittent fault. The the cable connections and wiring.

Edited April 23, 2016 by enigma-2

[vttk17a1]

Dear Akirby and mmoretti,

 

Thanks again for your interest and suggestions.  

 

I guess the key element here is who you believe "owns" the responsibility of remediating product defects.  We can discuss back and forth the shortcomings of dealer service departments, concierge service, or consumers.  At times, any of these variables may affect how or even if the repair of a defect actually happens.  I will certainly try twitter and Facebook. But it always seems to come back to the same place.

 

Here is how I see it:   I was sold a product that Lincoln warranted as free of defects.  The product failed almost immediately upon purchase.  The failure began in January.  It is now almost May.  I did not get what I paid for.  Lincoln warrants the car.  Either Lincoln can fix it's product (and honor it's warranty) or it cannot.

 

In my experience, Lincoln seems to think that I "own" the defects, not them. 

 

After 6 tries, whether Lincoln is reluctant to "throw parts at a problem" is irrelevant.  Lincoln needs to honor their warranty by repairing or replacing the defective system. The "We don't want to throw parts at the problem." concern should NEVER become the customer's problem.  They have had 6 tries to not "throw parts at the problem".  At this point, the defective parts or entire system should be promptly repaired or replaced.  

 

I too have spent significant time troubleshooting intermittent problems in electronic networks.  I understand Lincoln's reluctance.  That is why they were given 6 tries.  The "we don't want to throw parts at it" argument ends after a while.  When a network is down (and your Quality of Service agreement starts costing you thousands of dollars a minute) the issue becomes "fix it!".  On the 7th try I am at "fix it!"

 

If Lincoln lacks the capability to diagnose and repair a specific defect, (even if that service is provided through a dealer) the warranty is not worth the paper it is printed upon. If Lincoln can't honor it's warranty, it should not be selling the product at all.  You can try to blame the dealer, but Lincoln's name is hanging over the door.  Lincoln "owns" it, whether they like it or not.

 

Stonewalling and deflection of responsibility to the dealer by Lincoln makes me wonder if Lincoln has issues with their cars that they are not sure how to fix.  Is the consumer being used to troubleshoot problems "on our dime" rather then on Lincoln's?

 

Not exactly "World Class".

[mmoretti]

Big part of this and the question I've asked Lincoln for the past nine months. at what point does it become unreasonable how long and how many tries did they get before it's time to do something? And if they can't do something (i.e. Fix it in a reasonable time) then they better be replacing the car or refunding the money.

 

I was actually super cool about the whole thing because it was summertime and I don't use it that much and I even joked with tech-support hey you got a couple of months just fix it before it gets cold But then summer passed then fall and then we got into winter and I still was being patient because we had a mild winter But at a point you become the angry customer and then you're looked at like you're unreasonable when youve felt taken advantage of and finally had enough. Seriously what do they expect and how long do they think is reasonable for a fix on something we spend a lot of money to have. How would they like if we stop paying all this time that our car wasn't functioning correctly. I'm sure that wouldn't fly with Lincoln but they expect it to fly with us indefinitely.

 

Sorry for the rants. It's just a very frustrating position to be in. Scary how Vtk and I have different cars and different problems but the way Lincoln handled them is the same.

[vttk17a1]

Off the grid this week

[mmoretti]

Off the grid this week

My Lincoln hell gets worse everyday. How have you been making out lately?

[vttk17a1]

Dear Mmoretti,

Lincoln is still Lincoln.  It will never be their "problem" until you make it so.  I have had some health issues to deal with so I let the Lincoln Issues wait.  There was a new TSB about Revel radios and DSP software updates because of "issues" with sync3 faults.  I guess I'll look at that next.  

 

The dealer has been frustrated with this turn of events, because even though Lincoln has known about the issue for months, it said nothing to them until the actual publishing of the TSB ( the dealer brought it to Lincoln's attention).  Have documented three separate fault occurrences including video of techs looking at it.  

 

I guess I'll just keep chipping away for now.  Hope you are well despite the Lincoln frustrations.

[mmoretti]

Dear Mmoretti,

Lincoln is still Lincoln.  It will never be their "problem" until you make it so.  I have had some health issues to deal with so I let the Lincoln Issues wait.  There was a new TSB about Revel radios and DSP software updates because of "issues" with sync3 faults.  I guess I'll look at that next.  

 

The dealer has been frustrated with this turn of events, because even though Lincoln has known about the issue for months, it said nothing to them until the actual publishing of the TSB ( the dealer brought it to Lincoln's attention).  Have documented three separate fault occurrences including video of techs looking at it.  

 

I guess I'll just keep chipping away for now.  Hope you are well despite the Lincoln frustrations.

Hey vtk sorry about your health issues, hope all is better now.

Yeah, having your real life to deal with on top of Lincoln and a faulty car is always fun. I am fortunate my health is ok, but I'm managing a 6 year old with significant and scary health issues and both of my elderly parents are in very poor health. I run into the same problem where I have to let the Lincoln issues go for the time being, there are other priorities. But it also highlights my absolute need to have a reliable car and dealer I can depend on which is something I don't have.

 

Sounds like they might at least have something to try but you seem to fall in the same terrible boat I'm in. Your problem doesn't quite match the others problems so they just keep trying anything close I guess. When no one else or just a handful of people have the problem your chances of getting a quick fix or so much lower. I was in that boat for 7 months with the modem in my car, then after 7 months other people started having more issue so they finally escalated a fix (modem recall). I'm not sure if my case was a little different (I could never get anyone in the forums to confirm their problem was identical) because I believe Lincoln knew early on the fix but until more people complained and were affected they did squat. It was obvious the 3G modems in the 2016s worked fine and they must have known that. Now I'm stuck with the new modem not working, in July it will be one year it's broken.

 

And now I am waiting over three weeks to drive to my third dealer 75 minute drive each way to get a loaner to try and have them fix it yet again. At least you have a dealer you can trust and hopefully they are close to your home so you don't have to do all the driving to the dealer. I am a nut about my car and having someone I trust to fix it if something goes wrong is critical to me. That is no longer an option for me unless I want to drive hours. I'm on trip number 17 for all of my issues I think (can't count) between three dealers now. And worst part now is now is if something does happen to my car (I guess thank goodness my issue doesn't affect driving it right now but I'm always waiting for that shoe to drop now) I have no one to bring it to. No one wants to deal with my car. Everything promised by the dealer and Lincoln is non existent to me now. As you said before feel totally robbed...not a care from Lincoln or the dealer, they made their money...

[vttk17a1]

Still off the grid till next week

[vttk17a1]

Will attempt more warranty fun next week.  Wish me luck!

[mmoretti]

Will attempt more warranty fun next week.  Wish me luck!

Good luck, hope your nightmare ends soon. There is no end in sight for me. Can't even talk about it..

Keep us posted I hope they get it fixed.

I'd be happy I wasn't the poor guy with the water leak.

[vttk17a1]

Talked to the Service manager to arrange attempt 8 to repair.  He told me he has encountered another car (MKS) with the same problem.  He is hoping to find a way to solve the issues for both with a software update for a particular model.  Apparently the issue is starting to pop up regularly.

[thisguy159]

Hope there is an update sometime in July and it will resolve some of these issues.

[mmoretti]

Talked to the Service manager to arrange attempt 8 to repair.  He told me he has encountered another car (MKS) with the same problem.  He is hoping to find a way to solve the issues for both with a software update for a particular model.  Apparently the issue is starting to pop up regularly.

Good luck with that. I've been told four times now an app or software update will fix my problem and guess what 11 months and it's still broken and now they tell me no fix again after my car just sat at another dealer for two weeks. And guess what they told me AGAIN, have to wait for a software update. This is a joke. Lincoln is a joke.