Sync 3 Problems in 2016 M.K.X. Potential purchasers beware!

[akirby]

Pretty sure you'd get the same answer from other mfrs.   You also don't know exactly what the dealership told Lincoln - that can make a big difference.

 

Here is the problem - if the dealer can't reproduce the problem then there is no way for them to test it to make sure they fixed it.   So they do a repair, charge Lincoln, send you away thinking it's fixed and it isn't.   They don't want to throw parts at the problem because that not only costs them more money, it forces you to endure multiple repairs.  They also don't want an unscrupulous dealer ripping them off for unnecessary repairs.

 

So it's a bit of a catch-22. 

 

If there is a fix readily apparent from the video of the problem with a high probability of solving the problem then I think they should take that chance.   Throttle body problems is a good example - it was fairly common failure but in some cases Ford would not repair without a code being present that pointed to the TB.

 

I would like to see Lincoln have a different policy than Ford and maybe even have a factory service center in major centers where these types of hard to diagnose problems could be handled by trained Lincoln engineers with better factory assistance and cut out the independent dealer.   But I think that is against the law in most, if not all, states.

[vttk17a1]

Here is the problem as I see it in this "catch 22" situation"  If, after 7 attempts, Lincoln fails to solve the problem, what good is any warranty they offer?  I should not be penalized for their failure to perform.  If their practice is going to be "We just don't know what is wrong, so we won't do "anything" is unacceptable from a consumer standpoint.  

 

Is the product really so bad that they just can't figure it out?

 

I agree it is entirely plausible that Lincoln is not the only manufacturer guilty of this behavior.  The market does sort out these kinds of problems over time when consumers avoid faulty products and buy reliable ones.  The offending company goes out of business.

 

It is also possible that a dealer could be playing both sides of the fence.  Not true in this case.  I have purchased many Fords here and warranty work was never a problem.  The dealer has provided excellent service for more than 30 years.

 

Lincoln owes customers much more than this shabby treatment.  I have been a loyal customer.  They need to deliver and stand by a reliable product.

 

"Reliable" includes doing whatever is necessary to make good on a faulty product.  The reputation of any company takes years to build and minutes to destroy.  Their assurances are only words when the customer who has trusted them is left holding the bag.

 

Lincoln will demonstrate if they deserve to continue in the marketplace by how well they honor their promises.  So far, in my opinion, they haven't. When you are selling $55,000 to $65,000 cars, you need to make a commitment to sell and support excellence.  "We don't know, so you are out of luck!" is not a formula to stay in business.

 

I have been told that one of the biggest problems faced by any business in resolving poor customer experiences is the fact that long time loyal customers often just go away and never come back after shabby treatment.  I wonder how many will walk away from Lincoln?  

[akirby]

Wait - Lincoln already replaced the APIM 2 times?   That's a little different from they won't do anything.

 

Sounds like they don't know what else to try.  

 

Did you try contacting Lincoln directly?  Isn't there a Lincoln concierge or something like that?   Try that or contact FordService on twitter or facebook - they can be helpful engaging Ford/Lincoln resources directly as opposed to the dealership.

 

Worst case you have lemon law.

[vttk17a1]

Lincoln doesn't pay for or replace A.P.I.M.s.  The vendor exchanges them when you give them a code.  It is a dealer to vendor to dealer shipment.  Lincoln wasn't interested.  The "get a code" catch 22 was immediately invoked.  

 

The dealer couldn't get a known good A.P.I.M. to try to figure out the problem without a code.  The only way to get a code was to bring in the car when the fault was in progress.  The Lincoln solution was always: master reset, try it again. Can't even tell anymore how many times that happened.

 

So, in order to get a code to replace the A.P.I.M., I had to bring in the car with the fault actually in progress.  A.P.I.M .failure is a result, not the cause of the problem.  The car has now had 3 A.P.I.M.s and still faulting out.  It is not the A.P.I.M.  

 

I have spoken to the Concierge many times, as well as the Concierge Supervisor.  I have written to Ford's website for customer complaints.  I have complained in the new customer service surveys.  They just send an e-mail back saying "We see you have an open case number.  Talk to them".  They hand it right back to the Concierge.

 

Now we are back to "Can't duplicate the fault."  I expect to be told next to "Take the car and bring it back when it happens again"  (3rd time)  I've also heard "Maybe its your cell phone."  (Samsung Galaxy 5 - per Lincoln recommendation - used in my last Lincoln with no problems)  Who knows???

 

It is all very disappointing.  I never even got to the fun of getting a new car.  

 

Thanks for the suggestion about Twitter and Facebook.  I'll give it a shot.

[akirby]

I did not know the apim vendor was providing the warranty replacements.   Good to know.  Good luck.

[punch-card]

Humm, are you connecting your phone with Bluetooth or with a USB cable? When I first got my MKX, I noticed something weird (not your kind of weird) when I plugged the phone into the USB. Did you check that kind of relationship?

[vttk17a1]

Have done both Bluetooth and USB.  

 

The timing of the failures does not appear to be related to phone.  (Usually 60 to 90 minutes into a trip)  

 

Galaxy 5 is one of the Phones Lincoln tested and certified for use.  

 

Anything is possible, but I don't think the failure is RF connected, and I only use good USB cables.  Will investigate.

[mmoretti]

Humm, are you connecting your phone with Bluetooth or with a USB cable? When I first got my MKX, I noticed something weird (not your kind of weird) when I plugged the phone into the USB. Did you check that kind of relationship?

There's an Ssm 45623 that has to do with Siri and auto music play and Bluetooth but not sure how that relates to the nav locking and freezing. I did not know they already replaced the APIM so many times, my apologies.

[punch-card]

Galaxy 5 is one of the Phones Lincoln tested and certified for use.  

 

The only reason I say, is most likely the Galaxy s5 was tested on KitKat OS, not sure if you on currently on Lollipop or Marshmallow. I have a Galaxy S6 running Marshmallow and a S4 and have seen connectivity issue with OS upgrades... Just a thought.... And unexpected interrupt on the USB bus and do weird things.

[vttk17a1]

Phone os is current. 5.x Complete reinstall of os by at&t. Unit has faulted without phone in car. I agree probably some kind of voltage anomaly is causing the fault. Who knows why it is happening. I doubt it is a corrupt file on the phone.

[vttk17a1]

The height of irony...I just got an e-mail from Lincoln offering a test drive of the new Lincoln Continental.  First thing that comes up is "The Lincoln Promise".  Why in the world would I want another Lincoln when you won't (or can't) fix the new one I just bought from you?  (2631 miles at present, over 40 days at dealer with no repair)

 

I got a letter from RDA Group yesterday asking me to complete an on-line survey about Lincoln and my new car.  I don't think my responses did much in the way of portraying Lincoln as a car anyone would want to buy.  Offered to respond further if they were interested.  (They do O.E.M. marketing and research)  Also started looking for another car.

Edited April 12, 2016 by vttk17a1

[vttk17a1]

I got a private message from a Lincoln moderator suggesting I contact the Lincoln Concierge Center.  Here was my reply:

 

Dear Todd,

 

No one is more disappointed in this situation than I am.  I have been a loyal customer of Ford and Lincoln for over 40 years.  I have purchased many new cars from Ford and Lincoln and never have experienced anything like this. 

 

I fully intended to purchase a Continental before this happened, but how can I even consider a vehicle with complicated electronics when Lincoln won't stand behind it? 

 

I have repeatedly tried to get my car fixed speaking to the Concierge.  I even talked to them today.  "We can't duplicate it so we will not attempt to fix it" is their only response.  I have even brought the car in twice with the navigation fault in progress, and that isn't good enough. 

 

I have tried repeatedly to contact anyone else at Lincoln or Ford seeking help and discovered that no matter where I tried to call or who I talked to, I found myself back speaking to "Brittany".  

 

I discovered every call goes to the same group of people who refer warranty clients back to each other at the call center.  There is no way to contact anyone else.

 

A warranty is only a warranty if you can get the car fixed.  My 2016 M.K.X. has not worked properly since delivery.  I feel my loyalty has been met with, "We're giving you the infinite loop until you go away." 

 

If I get this treatment with a $55,000 car, should I really spend more to get a Continental?

[mmoretti]

I got a private message from a Lincoln moderator suggesting I contact the Lincoln Concierge Center.  Here was my reply:

 

Dear Todd,

 

No one is more disappointed in this situation than I am.  I have been a loyal customer of Ford and Lincoln for over 40 years.  I have purchased many new cars from Ford and Lincoln and never have experienced anything like this. 

 

I fully intended to purchase a Continental before this happened, but how can I even consider a vehicle with complicated electronics when Lincoln won't stand behind it? 

 

I have repeatedly tried to get my car fixed speaking to the Concierge.  I even talked to them today.  "We can't duplicate it so we will not attempt to fix it" is their only response.  I have even brought the car in twice with the navigation fault in progress, and that isn't good enough. 

 

I have tried repeatedly to contact anyone else at Lincoln or Ford seeking help and discovered that no matter where I tried to call or who I talked to, I found myself back speaking to "Brittany".  

 

I discovered every call goes to the same group of people who refer warranty clients back to each other at the call center.  There is no way to contact anyone else.

 

A warranty is only a warranty if you can get the car fixed.  My 2016 M.K.X. has not worked properly since delivery.  I feel my loyalty has been met with, "We're giving you the infinite loop until you go away." 

 

If I get this treatment with a $55,000 car, should I really spend more to get a Continental?

Your experience is scarily similar to mine with my mkc, right down to the way concierge operates. I want to validate what you are saying. Sorry you are having troubles.

 

I really don't understand what more they want you to show to them or prove as far as the problem as I believe you describe the dealer has seen it a few times. What are they looking to duplicate? What is happening at the time or right before it fails?

 

And you've been a customer that long? We thought we were getting the shaft because we are first time Lincoln buyers and when our car had an issue they couldn't figure out and deny from day 2 of ownership they figured they didn't care about our future business. Easier to squash one customer and eat the loss of a future sale then have to figure out what's going on with our car. And when that happens they have no vested interest in you and you really get treated like crap and get zero customer service. This is their so-called Lincoln pledge and joke warranty. Guess it works for those without problems and dont actually need to use the warranty."

 

Hope something gets worked out for you. I've pretty much given up hope... They suck.

[vttk17a1]

Dear M.Moretti

 

You pretty much have the picture.  It has been clearly illustrated that the navigation unit randomly faults out.  The dealer has even seen it in progress twice (as well as pictures provided for other occasions).  The dealer can't get a fault code that tells them why it happened so they cannot "reproduce" or validate the fault.  

 

On the present attempt (7th) The dealer has been trying for almost 3 weeks now to make it happen themselves, and cannot reproduce the fault on command.  Lincoln says "can't reproduce it, we won't pay to fix it."  

 

Even after seeing (twice) that the unit fails, Lincoln refuses to fix or replace it because they don't know exactly why it is happening.  Not exactly a confidence builder about future purchases of their product.

 

The Concierge people refuse to supply any phone numbers or people in the chain of command to appeal to. (They are really the same people as the Ford warranty people (all in central Florida).  To me "The Lincoln Promise"  isn't much of anything.  

 

So far, I have located no one in Dearborn, Michigan (Ford or Lincoln)  that I can talk to or any means to contact them.  I will continue to try.  I did get a survey from RDA Associates  asking about quality and service.  My responses did not reflect well upon Lincoln.

 

So much for "The Lincoln Promise".  You know, when I first read some of your comments (before experiencing first hand Lincoln's (non) commitment to honor it's warranty)  I thought your experience was unusual.  I certainly don't think that any more.  Good luck to you as well.  

 

As a last resort, you can always sell your car and get something else.  And if I were a new potential Lincoln customer I would "Run away Dude!"  "Run Far!  Run Fast!"  (Apologies to the Big Bang theory) 

Edited April 15, 2016 by vttk17a1

[akirby]

If Lincoln really wants to be world class they need a standard system to buy back or swap your vehicle if you have a problem they can't fix without having to go to arbitration or lemon law.   If the vehicle is less than 6 months old, you get your purchase price.   After that fair market value and A plan pricing on a new Ford or Lincoln.

 

That said I've done IT troubleshooting for 30 years so I understand their reluctance to just throw more parts at it without some indication of where the problem may be.  Especially if they've replaced the APIM twice already which is the most likely culprit (and maybe the only likely culprit other than maybe the antenna or wiring).

[vttk17a1]

Dear AKirby,

 

If only Lincoln were as rational as you.  I would immediately accept ANY of the suggestions you make.  

 

I have suggested variants of these same possible solutions to Lincoln.  They are simply not interested.  Their response was "Based upon our policies developed in consideration of the "lemon laws" of your state, we are not required to consider any of these solutions".

 

They are not interested in any "promise".  I could be wrong, but their "reluctance" seems more about avoiding cost than an inability to fix the car.   (And if it is an "inability" to fix, that is even scarier)

 

Fairness to the customer isn't even on the radar.  They will only help you if legally compelled to. 

They are betting you will avoid the time and expense of court and just give up.  

 

Not exactly "World Class" in my book. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by vttk17a1

[enigma-2]

TOL. Has the thought of trying a different SD card? It's memory, and a defective cell read at the wrong moment could corrupt the entire system.

 

Remember the early days of Windows and the BSOD?

[mmoretti]

TOL. Has the thought of trying a different SD card? It's memory, and a defective cell read at the wrong moment could corrupt the entire system.

Remember the early days of Windows and the BSOD?

That's a good idea to try. Especially if the problem only occurs during navigation. Hopefully the dealer thought of this and if not ask to swap one out.

[vttk17a1]

Dear mmoretti and enigma-2, .

 

Thanks for your interest and suggestions.  It does brighten up an otherwise dismal situation.  Too bad Lincoln isn't interested.

 

I think your suggestions might possibly lead to finding the root cause of this defect.  I wonder if this suggestion can be modified to be useful in solving my situation.  

 

The problem is that my unit is a SYNC3 .  It uses a a hard drive rather than an SD card to store navigation data.  The repair attempt description doesn't say if anything like this was looked at.  I will mention it and ask on Tuesday.

 

The dealer gave up on trying to "replicate" the problem.  They do know it exists, because they have already actually seen it twice.  

 

The Service Manager and Service Writer gave me the car back with their apologies.  I am going in to see the General Manager on Tuesday to see what it would take to get me into a different car.  

 

Step 1 on the decision process of what to do when Lincoln can't fix your car and refuses to do anything because they don't have to.  

 

I looked on cars.com and saw several VERY low mileage 2016 M.K.X. vehicles for sale as "Certified used cars".  One in Minnesota was actually even advertised as a Minnesota Lemon Law return.  I wonder how many problems they are really having?

 

Disappointing doesn't even begin to describe how this has gone.

[mmoretti]

Dear mmoretti and enigma-2, .

 

Thanks for your interest and suggestions.  It does brighten up an otherwise dismal situation.  Too bad Lincoln isn't interested.

 

I think your suggestions might possibly lead to finding the root cause of this defect.  I wonder if this suggestion can be modified to be useful in solving my situation.  

 

The problem is that my unit is a SYNC3 .  It uses a a hard drive rather than an SD card to store navigation data.  The repair attempt description doesn't say if anything like this was looked at.  I will mention it and ask on Tuesday.

 

The dealer gave up on trying to "replicate" the problem.  They do know it exists, because they have already actually seen it twice.  

 

The Service Manager and Service Writer gave me the car back with their apologies.  I am going in to see the General Manager on Tuesday to see what it would take to get me into a different car.  

 

Step 1 on the decision process of what to do when Lincoln can't fix your car and refuses to do anything because they don't have to.  

 

I looked on cars.com and saw several VERY low mileage 2016 M.K.X. vehicles for sale as "Certified used cars".  One in Minnesota was actually even advertised as a Minnesota Lemon Law return.  I wonder how many problems they are really having?

 

Disappointing doesn't even begin to describe how this has gone.

 

Ahh, sorry vtk I forgot Sync 3 doesn't use SD, sorry for the false hope :-(  I've been there many times :-) It was great idea though enigma for regular sync.

 

When I had my initial problems (you guys don't know my story, I do not post about it here because its an MKX forum and I have an MKC, but if you look me up on mkcforum (not this one) you will have quite the interesting read about my predicament) the dealer offered to get me "out of my car" too.  But at MY cost!  My husband was like no way, why should we pay more for what we SHOULD have got?!?  We bought our car, its not a lease.   Which is another reason they have tried to make us go away.  They don't even have to take this "piece of you now what" back, if it was lease they knew they would be getting back they would be more inclined to fix it...

 

Did you buy or lease vtk?

 

[vttk17a1]

Unfortunately, I purchased as well.  If I am going to incur a cost, I will wait until the next model year and buy something "Not Lincoln".  Or I might just bite the bullet and take them to court.

[vttk17a1]

Dear MMoretti,

 

I looked to try to see your posts on the MKC forum.

 

The forum has wiped all your posts but the one about going to the proving grounds.

Edited April 16, 2016 by vttk17a1

[vttk17a1]

My mistake. you may still be there.  Or not.  Another account was created with the same name.  The only difference is you are mmoretti and the other one is Mmoretti.  Pretty slick on their part.  When someone searches for you, they get the other account.  You must have made them angry.

Edited April 16, 2016 by vttk17a1

[mmoretti]

My mistake. you may still be there.  Or not.  Another account was created with the same name.  The only difference is you are mmoretti and the other one is Mmoretti.  Pretty slick on their part.  When someone searches for you, they get the other account.  You must have made them angry.

Hey vtk, that's not the forum I am in. That is me in the forum you speak of but that mkc forum isn't really active. I've been a part of the other( mkcforum.com) since last March a few months after everything went crazy with my car.

 

I must warn you it's a lot to read in there and it's not up to date and very incomplete as far as the whole story goes. I held back from posting a lot for a number of reasons. But I urge everyone to stay tuned to your favorite social media outlet. When I finish journaling, verifying, and editing my entire story (and what a story it will be for all to read, everyone needs to know the scum tactics used by dealers and car manufacturers) Lincoln, Ford, and dealer Facebook pages as well any other internet outlet I can find to post. These forums are only a small percentage...so check the Facebook pages.

 

I stopped posting on mkc forum there altogether after I stuck up for someone frustrated about their car and was basically attacked. You see in that forum if you vent or post about your problems (and the first production model mkcs had quite a few) a lot of the other members call you a whiner and a liar for some reason. I understand they don't want someone ranting constantly but that wasn't the case. And since my car had SO many problems it became a problem :-). i wasn't ranting it was just what was going on with my car and the dealer and most people haven't experienced that level of frustration.They only want to have the "feel good" stories posted.

 

Well that's not realistic nor doing Lincoln any favors. All manufacturers can have issues. They need the feedback if what's actually going on out there at the dealers. Lincoln almost vanished because they were obviously doing things wrong. They NEED to hear these things....because if I was Lincoln I'd be doing everything right now to find out what caused a customer they spent $$ bringing them over from their luxury competitors, a customer ready to spend significantly more on their next premium model, and alienate and drive them away? What happened? But like we said, if they get a problem they can't fix then it's in their best interest to write you off. Just one customer they think. Well they should do some reading in the mkc forum because sadly most people with their mkcs (although they loved them at first) are not getting another one when their lease is up (seems most people lease, I wish I had so I could dump it too) and social media can do a lot by way of reaching people. So they better reconsider that "one customer" because we have a much larger voice.

 

I'm going to summarize my one big issue for you because it might be hard for you to follow the forum. I removed all photos and posts I could from that forum. I just lurk over there to continue to monitor new problems. You need to see the pictures to understand the magnitude. Message me privately and perhaps there's a way I can send you my photos..I wil be posting them on the social media sites with my story.

 

Here's the ONE thing with my car (mind you I have dealt with 10 other things and presently right now my remote access still does not work after 8 months) I'm not going to get into the dealer stuff, just the problem. Sorry all for taking up MKX space. I will not post about it any further in here.

 

I took delivery December 2014, I live in the same general area of northwest NJ for 25 years. The second day I owned the car I opened my passenger doors after a 7 minute ride to my son's school and saw all these rocks and "debris" from the road all inside the door jambs all the way up to the seals around the door. I instantly knew that wasn't normal, never saw that happen before. Without getting into it I was ignored by dealer and Lincoln. Then a week later when I closed my doors I started hearing this awful rattle coming from under the car. I bring it in and those rocks getting in the doors are also being slammed up on top of a fuel shield underneath the car It had to go in several times to have the rocks removed until I insisted they fix it permanently it shouldn't happen! It was a nasty winter that year and I never got a chance to wash my car, only blow road salt off the bottoms with a u-wash car wash place. Finally in second week of March it warmed enough to properly wash my baby and I was completely horrified to find what I thought was "dirt" was actually damage! My car got completely ripped up from the road. You would have to see it to believe. My wheels were chewed! The plastic molding pieces that run along the sides of the doors on the bottom were completely sandblasted and almost all white from the chewed plastic. Both my back passenger doors paint was chipped all the way from the bottom on up the door! I was literally sick to my stomach. And this was from driving a mere 2,000 miles of back roads, no highway! When I eventually took it on a highway everything got worse. My car is ruined and gets ruined from simple everyday errands and driving. In the winter when the roads are "dirtier" so the damage is escalated severely.

 

I can't get into the story more here I'm sorry. The whole thing is incredulous, and what the dealer and Lincoln did is as well. So basically they tell me f u there's nothing wrong with the car it's your driving conditions! ive driven here (and all my neighbors) for 25 years and worse weather. NEVER on chip on my wheel. My husband has an escape titanium with 60k miles driving same roads and worse and his car is perfect. The last two years my car got destroyed my neighbors brand new Q5 (right to the gut as that was my second choice car) and new grand Cherokee literally followed me on the same roads taking our kids to school when the damage happened, their cars are perfect...MY DRIVING CONDITIONS? So I bought an AWD SUV that I have to keep in the garage all winter if I don't want my 49K car ripped up. But everyone else is free to drive wherever they want.

 

Have to stop the story now, sorry to leave everyone with a half story. its too much to post and I don't want to take up this forum. But do stay tuned like I said. This is story everyone buying a car should hear.

 

Good luck with your situation vtk, I'm battling many right now with my car and Lincoln only wants to make my life harder. Either the dealer just decided we were scum for some reason from the beginning (that's fine we can give someone else the money they think we don't have)or this all has to do with denying a problem they knew they couldn't fix. But both Lincoln and dealer decided early on we were not worth their business and like we said once they put you in that boat, you're pretty much sunk. You are not treated like their other customers. And why? Because THEIR car is defective? This is somehow my fault and I guess I deserve this? Way to treat new customers.

 

Sorry for the long post all. I just like to support others with problems since I know what's it's like. Vtk is not alone.

[Cosmos36]

mmoretti...in a totally pragmatic & neutral mode after reading your post, the first thing I wondered as I (in my imagination) inspected your vehicle, what is the base cause of the issue? I would like your take on the matter. Are you suggesting that the vehicle suffers from design flaws that your neighbor's vehicles didn't have, e.g. lack of mud flaps, location of cladding, faulty cladding material, faulty paint on wheels (vis-a-vis chrome plated wheels), etc.? Does the vehicle's shape, materials, or other structure need revision? I could go on in my imagination, but it appears that your vehicle somehow acquired damage that others didn't when driven under identical conditions. The base question then is WHY and what could have been done when the vehicle was still on the drawing boards to mitigate potential threats/damage?

 

I understand that there are issues with the dealer & Lincoln's response, but as an owner or one contemplating becoming one, what is the basic problem here that is amenable to correction on future model design?