walkabout Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 My lease is about up, and the Nautilus is one of my top choices for a potential replacement. When I bought the MKX it really want that much more than an Edge, all things considered, and I think the cost was work it. Now, the difference is much more marked. Ford Edge sells for less than dealer cost in my neighborhood. The Nautilus is a solid $10,000 more. May change over time as the Nautilus is on the market longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeguy Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Hey Walkabout. There is much more of a difference this go round than there was in 16 to differentiate the Nautilus and Edge. Lincolns long turn around plan is beginning to show, the badge engineering from yesteryear is almost nowhere to be found this time. From the quietness of the car while driving, to the upgraded switch gear there is now a big difference. It is to bad that they did not go the extra half mile and change up the interior, that is the only issue I have with the Nautilus, as I wait patiently for mine to be built week of March 18. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 With Nautilus you can get the amazing twin turbo 2.7 V6 without having to get the (to me) uncomfortable sport seats in the Edge ST. But there are lots of differences. Adaptive steering, adaptive suspension, quieter ride, exterior looks, to name just a few. I find it well worth the extra 10k. I know the MKX/Nautilus get lots of hits on the interior, but I actually find it quite nice. The only two things I had hoped we'd get inside with the refresh (and rename) was HUD and a little bigger touch screen. But when the redesign comes in a couple years or so I expect we'll see a very Aviator-style interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 I test drove the Nautilus today. It's basically the exact same vehicle I have now with and right speed transmission. Otherwise, not much had changed. The dealer also sells Volvos. I drive an xc60. The Nautilus is not competitive with that vehicle in most regards. Interior quality is in a different league, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmer Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 How about Lincoln's 4-Year 50K bumper to bumper warranty versus Ford's 3-Year 36K? The longer Lincoln warrany is a definite value-added plus in my book., Especially considering all of the super expensive MKX/Nautilus electronics and gizmos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, walkabout said: I test drove the Nautilus today. It's basically the exact same vehicle I have now with and right speed transmission. Otherwise, not much had changed. The dealer also sells Volvos. I drive an xc60. The Nautilus is not competitive with that vehicle in most regards. Interior quality is in a different league, to be honest. Volvo did a nice job with the XC60. In the research phase I thought it would end up being the vehicle I'd get. The interior is gorgeous in a Scandinavian minimalist kind of way, almost as nice as the Range Rover Velar. Granted, the Nautilus does still have Lincoln's older interior design, and it will until redesign in a couple of years. That older design doesn't have the beauty of the Navigator and Aviator interiors, to be sure, but in its Black Label configuration at least I still find it quite nice. But you are right. The Nautilus has a new name but it is just a mid-cycle refresh of the MKX, and less was done to the interior than elsewhere. The only interior changes were a different rear view mirror, a digital instrument cluster and the addition of a charging pad. Lincoln tries to obscure that fact at times. But one thing that makes the XC60 and Velar interiors look so nice is the removal of virtually all physical controls and moving them over to taps on the touch screen. In the Volvo, if you want to increase the temperature (or fan speed) or you have to look at the screen, find the temperature icon, tap it, tap the temp up icon until you get to your desired temperature and then tap the X to close the screen. There's a reason most states outlaw using a hand-held phones or I-Pads while you drive, and avoiding distractions like that is why. But if that doesn't bother you (it was the deal breaker for me, as I strongly prefer a few physical controls) and if you are looking at the base 2.0 turbo inline-4 engine, the XC60 is a great choice. If, however, you really want the power you can find in the Nautilus' 2.7 V6, you'll have to upgrade to at least the double boosted (both turbo and super charged) I4 or the top of the line Volvo engine with 4 power sources (engine, turbo, super, electric motor) all weaving together struggling valiantly to produce a smooth power band. I went with the 2.7, and don't regret it. Edited March 3, 2019 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Gurgeh, I honestly don't think there is a powertrain in the segment that competes with the 2.7t. It's a joy to drive, no doubt. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 11 hours ago, Timmer said: How about Lincoln's 4-Year 50K bumper to bumper warranty versus Ford's 3-Year 36K? The longer Lincoln warrany is a definite value-added plus in my book., Especially considering all of the super expensive MKX/Nautilus electronics and gizmos... Not to me. I lease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Guergh, check out this review of Sensus. Pretty damning (especially when compared to the class leading sync). Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 https://www.macrumors.com/review/volvo-s60-carplay/ Sorry, left out the link. Basically, supports your post completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, walkabout said: Guergh, check out this review of Sensus. Pretty damning (especially when compared to the class leading sync). Yes. Slow, not particularly responsive. And problems with the system is one reason why Volvo's reliability rating has dropped so far in the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 I didn't find any of that to be true. My understanding is that the unresponsive issue had been resolved. With the Volvo vs Nautilus/Edge, you are very basically giving up superior infotainment system and engine for interior quality, more manageable size, and better mpg. There are aspects of sync 3 I don't love, but it's still one of the best systems out there. Which brings me back to the Edge. I don't think the interior quality is all that different than Ford and most of the other features are parallel. I do think Nautilus prices will come down but I could get a Ford Edge for under invoice right now. A loaded Edge is probably on par with an XC60 or Q5 dynamically and will cost $10,000 less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastfwd75 Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 Was going to road test a used 2016 edge in early 2018; I learned about the existence of the MKX and went to try one and liked the interior immediately. The devaluation is worse on an MKX to the point where a reserve model was almost the same price as the edge sport; easy choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 That's always been the case with an MKX. Lincoln suffers horrible depreciation and a used MKX will not cost you more than a used Edge. As for the interior, I'm of two minds. I like the layout and ergonomics (I know the trans buttons get mixed reviews in the press, but I think they're goofy and fun). I think the material quality is light years behind Volvo and the Germans. Not even close,to be honest. The Edge is not a segment leader in that regard either. Mazda, Hyundai/Kia, and Nissan all outclass Ford in that segment (purely in terms of materials). Hyundai's infotainment is on par with Sync too (Mazda doesn't begin to compare). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastfwd75 Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 I wonder what it is that makes a "good" interior for most people. For me it was mostly about feeling comfortable and ergonomics but also a bit of appearance; especially having soft plastics/leatherette instead of hard plastics. I also really like the raised console and the space freed by the buttons shifter. I read and watch car reviews all the time and Germans are always praised but to me they look good but really not that much better than the MKX. The Mercedes looks ridiculous with the numeric keypad. Maybe the look of the MKX is more traditional but it's still good materials, ergonomics. I drove an X3 just before I decided on the MKX and I liked it but I felt better just sitting in the MKX. Also some details I noticed in the MKX that I did not see in other cars. The turn signals sound like a metronome instead of a relay click. That is some great attention to details. I wish there was a way to turn off active noise cancelling to see if it actually makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) Going back to the interior quality (putting aside design issues like the big center stack and the expansive upper dash) mentioned by Walkabout and Fastfwd75, I agree that the quality of the standard materials used in the Nautilus (and MKX) don't meet the standards set by the best, like Volvo and Range Rover. But check out the materials used in Black Label configurations. Other than the hard plastic on the center stack, everything else, including the upper dash, becomes wrapped in high quality tactile leather and the synthetic suede headliner materials is lush. In BL configuration I find the interior material quality overall better than my old Q5 S-Line (which loved and I found to be much better than the new Q5 interior materials). Granted, BL adds a big price premium and I think a lot of those touches should have been included in the base interior. Walkabout's bottom line, in standard configuration, hits it about right: "With the Volvo vs Nautilus/Edge, you are very basically giving up superior infotainment system and engine for interior quality, more manageable size, and better mpg." To me, the engine and infotainment system were the most important considerations, which is why I went with the Nautilus. But I also felt that because I splurged on the Black Label I didn't give up on interior quality (not as beautiful inside, but then I get some actual physical controls -- I think the new-style Lincoln interior configurations help close the pretty -- and materials -- gap, but we won't see those in this vehicle until the redesign in a few years). The size depends on what one wants. I came out of the smaller Q5 and the driving dynamics of the Nautilus are noticeably different. The Naut, because of its greater weight and size isn't as flingable around curves; there's no sense in denying physics. But then, I wanted a little more room inside so was willing to compromise on that. Cornering aside, I was surprised how much better I like the Lincoln's S mode driving dynamics of the twin turbo 2.7/8 speed over the Audi's S mode supercharged 3.0/8 speed. The shifting is smoother, the power band is superior, it takes road imperfections better without giving up on responsiveness, the adaptive suspension makes a real difference, and the engine feels more refined. I don't like the Nautilus' D mode for around town driving. Too floaty and bouncy for my tastes, but it works well for highway driving. There is, however, a huge MPG difference between D and S in the Nautilus and if that was a concern of mine (it isn't) I might have gone for a smaller vehicle with a boosted 4 cylinder. I might even have waited for the Corsair, which is growing to Q5/XC60 compact size. So all in all, I feel I made the right choice. But that is just me. Different folks will come to different conclusions on what is best for what they want. Edited March 5, 2019 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 Gurgeh, your posts are really thoughtful and balanced. Much appreciated. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeguy Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 There has always been since the dawn of man a disparity of interior quality between North American auto manufactures and European ,German, Asian car manufactures, when comparing similar price points. Look at the panel gaps, or the alignment of interior pieces, it is not just the quality of materials used. When I ordered my Nautilus I was considering an XC60 or 90, we all look at these being in the same snack bracket ,yet they really are not. One you equip either with nicer interior trim, Tech packages etc they are much more expensive than Nautilus. The interior is much nicer put together , softer leather, you really are paying for the extra detail to fit and finish than North American. It all comes down to what we are willing to pay or not. My Nautilus listed for 62,000 the same XC90 I was considering listed at over 67,000. I know we do not pay list , and there are always incentives etc, just the same there is no way I could justify this difference in lease pricing, therefore I put up with the somewhat lack of refinement of the MKX interior VS the other. North American manufactures have always been driven by the bean counters, Euro companys are as well , just the same they are willing to put in the extra $10 per vehicle to give it the fit and finish that they have. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 Caddy is close to the interior quality of the Germans. The newer Lincoln SUVs are as well. I'd put the Nautilus below Mazda and Hyundai (in terms of materials) , to be honest. It's also light-years above most of the Euro competitors in ergonomics and infotainment. And to get a drivetrain anywhere as nice as the 2 7T you'd probably be spending $70,000. I guess everything is a trade-off. Imagine if Lincoln had invested $300 more in a top tier interior? There wouldn't be a sedan in the class that could compete. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeguy Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 If Lincoln did invest a few hundred $$$ in a new interior for the Nautilus it would be in or very near the top tier for its class . As such we get the MKX from 2016-2018 for another few years. This was my only gripe about the Nautilus. I am looking forward to getting mine in a few weeks, just the same this is what had me looking elsewhere in the first place. Gurgeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, walkabout said: ... And to get a drivetrain anywhere as nice as the 2 7T you'd probably be spending $70,000. Actually, I don't think there is one in the class. Closest I could find is the Range Rover Velar's turbo 3.0. It had power similar to the 2.7, but with HP and torque reversed. But it is also less refined and, oddly, is actually a V8 (originally a Ford design) with two cylinders unused, which adds to engine weight. And price of a comparably configured (and frankly prettier) Velar? About $80,000. Now, with that you do get something the Nautilus doesn't have: serious off-road capabilities. But how many Range Rover owners regularly take their a-bit-below-or-a-bit-above-$100k vehicles out into the mud and ruts and mountain streams? EDIT: Come to think of it, you can get that same engine in the sport configuration of the Jaguar F-Pace for $70,000. But it only comes with extremely uncomfortable (to me) sport seats, and it is also pretty noisy (less damping materials to reduce weight and improve handling). Edited March 5, 2019 by Gurgeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeguy Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 When I go to purchase a car , and this is how I have always looked at it in terms of priorities. 1. comfort/ luxury 2. quietness of drive. 3. style/ tech. 4. powertrain. I have never been one even in my younger years to want HP. Just give me refined and adequate acceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 34 minutes ago, shoeguy said: If Lincoln did invest a few hundred $$$ in a new interior for the Nautilus it would be in or very near the top tier for its class . As such we get the MKX from 2016-2018 for another few years. This was my only gripe about the Nautilus. I am looking forward to getting mine in a few weeks, just the same this is what had me looking elsewhere in the first place. They definitely cheaped out on the Nautilus refresh including keeping the same engines as Edge and a few other things. Hopefully the new one gets here sooner rather than later with an Aviator style interior. The Corsair interior (debuting later this year) is very similar to Aviator but we'll have to see about quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeguy Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 As I have dealt with the one dealer and sales manager for 15 plus years I was given the deal I could not refuse on my soon to be built Nautilus. If it were not for the $$ I am paying I would have gone elsewhere. I was very prepared to go to a lesser equipped Volvo or other and pay what I know is fair value. When I was at my dealer the gentleman I always deal with said would this keep you in the family? Damn straight it would. This time around $$$ talked more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted March 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, akirby said: They definitely cheaped out on the Nautilus refresh including keeping the same engines as Edge and a few other things. Hopefully the new one gets here sooner rather than later with an Aviator style interior. The Corsair interior (debuting later this year) is very similar to Aviator but we'll have to see about quality. Honestly, I feel like they jumped the shark. The Nautilus has some notable improvements (the tranny) and I like the new interior colors but there isn't much of an upgrade there. I still think the engine and basic platform are on par with anything from Volvo, Audi, Lexus, etc. Put an aviator quality interior in it, and maybe upgrade a few of the electronic gizmos, and you'd have a car that is at the front of the class. Shoeguy - I found that Lincoln was way more reasonable when it came to negotiating a deal than any other company. The deal they came me on my 2016 was really, really nice. Dealer support has been poor, but the sales experience was excellent. Edited March 5, 2019 by walkabout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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