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Consumer Reports


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51 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:12 PM

New reliability data was just released. MKX is near the bottom of the category, rated as one of the least reliable vehicles in the upscale midsize class (Competition from Caddy didn't do much better). Not an issue for those of us who lease but that's some truly dismal performance.





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#2 OFFLINE   Cosmos36

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:50 PM

Since I've had zero issues in two years of ownership, I guess that would make me & my MKX exceptional amongst the crowd. It's a great feeling.



#3 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:52 AM

New reliability data was just released. MKX is near the bottom of the category, rated as one of the least reliable vehicles in the upscale midsize class (Competition from Caddy didn't do much better). Not an issue for those of us who lease but that's some truly dismal performance.


You have to take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt. All to many times they've reported an item to be God's gift only to see it fail dismally in the real world. And, they have a record for favoring foreign cars. (And of course the foreign manufacturers never fail to report their problems, right?)
I bought one of thr first Toyota Celica's in the US. Right off the carrier. Great car, but seats were tight and uncomfortable, ran through points every 2,000 miles and got stuck in snow every winter. Never reported in CR.
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#4 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 12:09 PM

The "record of favoring foreign cars" is (with all due respect and not meaning to be attacking) totally bogus. We're talking about RELIABILITY data here. They survey their readership for problem areas and report the findings. The resulting data correlates with warranty claims and has been well validated over a 30 year period. The bias towards foreign cars also led them to remove most M-B, Infiniti, and even the Acura MDX based on reliability.

I don't even know what the remark about foreign companies not reporting problems is about. These are data obtained from owners, most of whom (like me) own or have owned both foreign and domestic cars.

Oh, and I should also point out that the "biased" CR gave the MKX a higher road test score than every foreign vehicle in the class besides the Q7. They also have rated other domestic vehicles, like the Dodge Durango, at the top of their respective classes.

It is also a mistake to assume that aggregate data translates to individual experience. That's a statistical fallacy . My MKX has been mostly reliable and I had an Acura the that fell apart after 70,000 miles. Cr's data are for reliability trends over the full fleet not an individual owners experience.

These data are pretty rock solid and tend to be very influential. Vehicle sales and resale values track very closely with their reports.

There are aspects of their analyses I don't agree with. I teach stats at a major University and I have corresponded with their analysts. But, there is no bias whatsoever in their reports. Rock solid work.

Don't be insulted by my response, please. I'm taking issue with your argument, not you (I greatly respect your opinion on general).

Edited by walkabout, 21 October 2017 - 12:20 PM.

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#5 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 01:48 PM

There is bias in their reviews - as there would be with any person from any publication, blog or website. I believe there is unconscious bias with their reliability ratings - they only survey their subscribers. Take every review and rating with a grain of salt.

#6 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:33 PM

If there reviews are so biased, how is it that the domestic MKX outscored the German and Asian competition.

Cr's subscriber base is fairly representative of upscale car owners. It tends to be affluent and educated.
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#7 OFFLINE   fredluke

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 04:14 PM

Unfortunately, as I said in previous posts there is a common thread of unreported failures with foreign vehicles. Why...I don't know.

 

Honda fined $79 mil for failing to report vehicle warranty claims.

VW cheating EPA

BMW (Mini) failing to report transmission issues (not repairable parts replace only)

Jag has had numerous issues with electronics and trannys.

 

These are only the ones that got caught.

 

One thing I do know for sure is Ford and Lincoln has taken a hit for reliability for years since the Sync system first hit the market. If you drill down into the actual owner complaints and warranty calls you will see that a fair chunk is due to the lack of understanding relating to the infotainment system.

 

Reports always paragraph a vehicles failure, but rarely break down the actual issues like 3000 complaints poor brakes, 2500 bad transmissions, 1000 engine failures.



#8 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 07:27 PM

If there reviews are so biased, how is it that the domestic MKX outscored the German and Asian competition.
Cr's subscriber base is fairly representative of upscale car owners. It tends to be affluent and educated.


I didn’t say they were biased against Ford or against a specific country, just that they do have biases.

#9 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 03:05 PM

Unfortunately, as I said in previous posts there is a common thread of unreported failures with foreign vehicles. Why...I don't know.
 
Honda fined $79 mil for failing to report vehicle warranty claims.
VW cheating EPA
BMW (Mini) failing to report transmission issues (not repairable parts replace only)
Jag has had numerous issues with electronics and trannys.
 
These are only the ones that got caught.
 
One thing I do know for sure is Ford and Lincoln has taken a hit for reliability for years since the Sync system first hit the market. If you drill down into the actual owner complaints and warranty calls you will see that a fair chunk is due to the lack of understanding relating to the infotainment system.
 
Reports always paragraph a vehicles failure, but rarely break down the actual issues like 3000 complaints poor brakes, 2500 bad transmissions, 1000 engine failures.



First of all, all car manufacturers have been guilty of that crap over the year, including ford.

Second, none of that is relevant for how CR collects their data. Cr gets their data from car owners not the companies themselves.

Third, some of the most unreliable vehicles in CR's survey are foreign, including mini and jaguar and m-b.

Finally, if you look at cr's data, they list specific problem areas. Lincolns are not more prone to infotainment complaints than other brands. From their tables, it's more about issues like fit and finish (which many people on this forum have had).
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#10 OFFLINE   Cosmos36

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:30 PM

Specifically addressing Lincoln's early 2016 MKXs, a buyer cast his fate to the winds regarding fit & finish when custom ordering. Many of the MKXs were very poorly assembled. I especially noted misalignments of hoods, hatches, and bits & pieces around the dash and console. For a production VIN watcher like myself, it was obvious that many MKXs simply disappeared forever somewhere between the end of the production line and the shipping staging area. Fortunately, I lucked out with my September-built MKX arriving with only a small issue above the passenger side headlight area. To my knowledge , there have been negligible powertrain issues...the 2.7 Nano engine has been a jewel. Recent inspections of current dealer arrivals have not demonstrated any obvious defects to the eye.



#11 OFFLINE   thisguy159

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:44 PM

Though i don't agree with the CR bias comments, I would agree that MKX is deserving of the poor rating and I do not think its specific to the early 2016.  Even late model 2016 have sulfur issues, various module issues, assembly issues, wind issues etc.



#12 OFFLINE   mfam16

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:02 PM

I very rarely follow CR data. That being said, I'm happy with both our X. Would I purchase Lincoln in the future, maybe. My X had more fit and finish issues vs my wife's X. Mechanically both have been solid so far and I don't expect to have any issues. Yes the fit and finish is an annoying issue, it wasn't a deal breaker. Maybe CR data will help Lincoln in the future

#13 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:43 PM

Though i don't agree with the CR bias comments, .


Oh really? Then explain why CR blasted Ford because too many controls had to be done via the touchscreen and touchscreen use is dangerous.

Then they turn around and give the Tesla Model S a better than perfect score (103 out of 100) when EVERY SINGLE control is touchscreen.
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#14 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:56 PM

Ah yes, Grasshopper. That's because the Lincoln has only an 8 incher and the Tesla has a 15 incher. (Touchscreen that is).

#15 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:11 AM

Ah yes, Grasshopper. That's because the Lincoln has only an 8 incher and the Tesla has a 15 incher. (Touchscreen that is).

 

Even CR never offered that explanation.   And in this case size doesn't matter - you still have to take your eyes off the road to find the touchscreen buttons regardless of size.



#16 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:45 AM

Oh really? Then explain why CR blasted Ford because too many controls had to be done via the touchscreen and touchscreen use is dangerous.
Then they turn around and give the Tesla Model S a better than perfect score (103 out of 100) when EVERY SINGLE control is touchscreen.


Cr has been very critical of that interface strategy for years.

The Tesla is on their not recommended list and, as I recall, their online review, was critical of the interface. They've been very critical of other cars, like the Volvo, for that choice.

Meanwhile, CR had been enthusiastic about sync 3,recently rating it as one of the best infotainment systems in the market.

Calling this bias is unfair. The editors of CR are human and their is going to be times a problem shows up more in one review than others.

#17 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:50 AM

Specifically addressing Lincoln's early 2016 MKXs, a buyer cast his fate to the winds regarding fit & finish when custom ordering. Many of the MKXs were very poorly assembled. I especially noted misalignments of hoods, hatches, and bits & pieces around the dash and console. For a production VIN watcher like myself, it was obvious that many MKXs simply disappeared forever somewhere between the end of the production line and the shipping staging area. Fortunately, I lucked out with my September-built MKX arriving with only a small issue above the passenger side headlight area. To my knowledge , there have been negligible powertrain issues...the 2.7 Nano engine has been a jewel. Recent inspections of current dealer arrivals have not demonstrated any obvious defects to the eye.


Per CR's data, many 2017 onwers are reporting complaints. The issues are not restricted to the 2016.

Earlier, I mentioned that I don't necessarily agree with all of their data analysis strategies. I think a super reliable engine is a lot more important than trim issues.

But, then again, few cars have engine problems this early in the lifespan.

Annecdotely, we've had two Acura vehicles. The quality, in terms of annoying for and finish problems was very disappointing. The Lincoln had been no better or worse than the vaunted Honda product.

#18 OFFLINE   walkabout

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:11 AM

I just looked at their online review of the Tesla (which is now recommended due to improved reliability). They aren't enthusiastic about the controls or for and finish. "Navigating these options is quite distracting while driving. Text in the cluster is too small for Fiftysomething eyesight"

Granted, they are not as critical of the old myford interface.

The high score is determined by the road test performance.

#19 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:21 AM

Calling this bias is unfair. The editors of CR are human and their is going to be times a problem shows up more in one review than others.

 

But that's the point.  Humans will always be biased whether it's intentional or not.   It's human nature.   Everybody is biased to some degree.  It doesn't mean CR is more biased than anyone else.  It just means you have to take all reviews and opinions with a grain of salt - including CR.

 

Cr has been very critical of that interface strategy for years.

The Tesla is on their not recommended list and, as I recall, their online review, was critical of the interface. They've been very critical of other cars, like the Volvo, for that choice.

 

The original Tesla model S review (which got a 103 out of 100) up to and including the 2017 update made no mention of the touchscreen being distracting.

 

The 2018 version does mention it, yet still gives the vehicle a perfect 100 score.   How can you give something a perfect 100 when it has such a big safety flaw (based on complaints against other brands)?

 

At best it's inconsistent.

 

There are other cases as well - rating some new Toyotas as reliable even though they had no data - while other models from other brands had to wait.   And they turned out to be wrong on one of those Toyotas so they no longer do that.


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#20 OFFLINE   Cosmos36

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:14 AM

"All opinions are slanted...no humans are perpendicular".








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